The Paradox of Sleep with Matthew Walker & Neil deGrasse Tyson

What happens when we go to sleep? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-hosts Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly break down the mystery of why we sleep, time dilation in dreams, circadian rhythms, and sleeping in space with neuroscientist Matt Walker.

Why did our need for sleep survive evolution? We explore the evolution of sleep and why we even need to sleep at all. Do all animals sleep? Learn about Nathaniel Klietman’s cave study, our 24-ish hour sleep cycle, and what the definition sleep even is. Does the early bird really get the worm?

What goes on in the body while we sleep? Discover the syphonic pulsing of brain waves that occurs in non-REM sleep and how REM sleep looks similar to waking. We discuss Alzheimer's relationship to sleep and new technology to manipulate sleep brain waves. Could you use technology to supercharge sleep so you could sleep for shorter periods? Can you really “catch up” on sleep? We explore the relationship between dreams and time and whether time really does move slower in the dream world.

How similar is sleep to a psychotic break? We discuss the hallucinations and premonitions in sleep and do a statistical analysis of Gary’s premonitions. Is there snoring in space? Find out about what makes sleeping in space tricky and whether Neil would be a good subject for a sleep study.

Thanks to our Patrons Micheal Unwin, Vijay Krishnan, Leroy Gutierrez, alycia allen, Hilary Rush, Kira Lesser, and Daryl Sawyer for supporting us this week.

NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.

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Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: Matt Walk Sleep Expert
3:38 - Why Do We Need Sleep?
05:26 - Evolving to Sleep & The Animal Kingdom
08:30 - Circadian Rhythms & Mammoth Cave
12:28 - Chronotypes: Early Birds & Night Owls
15:18 - What Happens When We Sleep?
18:42 - Mental Health & Dementia
21:19 - Can You Artificially Supercharge Your Sleep?
23:21 - Can You “Catch Up” On Sleep?
25:49 - Time Dilation in Dream Sleep
29:31 - Premonitions from Dreams
32:45 - Sleep & Psychosis
34:35 - Sleeping in Space
40:24 - Neil’s Sleep

[parintelebaiazid]

I can honestly say that professor Matt Walker is one of the best guests you ever had on Startalk! His level of knowledge and his way of communicating it is outstanding! I was mesmerized by him and also were Neil and Chuck, because they didn't need to interrupt as often or make funny remarks to keep the conversation going! Ironically, him talking about sleep made me pay more attention than ever! I'm a fan of Matt Walker!

[sirkid]

I have been alive on his Earth for 46 years, and I have to say, this is the single most mind-blowing bit information I've ever heard about sleep. I am buying a new bed tomorrow. Thank you.

[dianacanales]

Fascinating discussion! Please have Dr. Matthew Walker on again! Not only is he an expert in his field, but he's extremely engaging and fun to listen to. Plus there are so many more questions I hope you all ask him next time -- Please check all the comments. I saw several questions from other commenters that I wondered, as well: "What happens to the brain of a chronic insomniac?" and "...sleep paralysis and sleep-walking." -- Thanks so much, Neil, Chuck & Gary!❤❤❤

[timsanders]

As a nearly 70 year old man, I have learned to embrace sleep and the accompanying dreams. The benefits of long, deep sleep are under valued, in my humble opinion.

[llllogix]

Because of Matthew Walker and the many podcasts he's been on. I was able to fix my sleep. It took nearly a year to fully gain better sleeping habits. The importance of sleep is extremely underrated in today's society and feeds into the mental health crisis substantially in a negative way.

[AustinaCasey]

I love how Chuck gets so into these discussion!! His humor is refreshing also!

[ramos_dt]

He is probably one of the best guests of the show. The questions are answered clearly and direct to the point. What you asked is what you get.

[jfreshh]

You can tell the guest truly loves sleep just by the way he talks about it. Great episode

[DannyJoh]

Please do a follow-up on this episode. Feels like you could make a whole series on this topic. Would love to hear more about power naps, how sound, temperature and light effect sleep, more about sleep and stress/anxiety/depression, do fitness watches really measure sleep quality well and how to change sleep patterns back to a healthy rhythm.

[edwardisingoma]

The level of intelligence and knowledge on this panel is remarkable! Thank you, and please have this gentleman back.

[shadw]

Dreaming is the most underrated part of life.

It's packed with euphoria and adventure, often feels exactly like real life and can even be useful for everyday life practicality like solving problems, getting rid of fears, improving creativity ect.

[emmygee]

This is one of my favourite star talks. Dr. Matt Walker is incredible at explaining things at a simple yet educational level. Bring him back.

[noahglymph]

Matthew Walker's talk is so soothing its putting Neil to sleep.

[Frustratedfool]

I was awoken early when my house alarm malfunctioned. I had to spend a few minutes opening it to disconnect the battery. I tried to get back to sleep and after 10-15 minutes had this moment of sleepy clarity where EVERY memory I chose to recall was instant and vivid. I could remember things clearly from events 30+ years ago. It was blissful.

[filiperibeirofr]

Love to dive in the sleep topic, could listen Dr. Matthew talk for hours, because it shows that he knows hes stuff and shows the great passion he has for the subject and for brain matters

[davidclark]

So because of the slower brain activity, we run slow in our dreams. I remember learning this. What's fascinating is in my dreams now, If I'm running when I notice it's slow, I simply acknowledge that it's dream running, and that's why it feels slow. I tell myself just go with it. The dream always ends after that, like me acknowledging it being a dream somehow stops the dream. I wish I could stop that happening and have lucid dreams, but it seems that I can't, or don't remember.

[mikestubblefield]

As someone with narcolepsy, I’m fascinated by the science of sleep. This was very interesting and fun to watch as well. Thank you.

[ayandaskupela]

I like how Neil gets sleepy or less interested when he's not the one explaining a concept

[InsaneMetalSoldier]

This is one of those episodes that when you see the title you're like "Meh, I'll pass and wait for the next physics / astronomy episode" but if you click it you get so hooked and you discover that you would have missed pure gold!

[ShiftyGeeza]

I routinely sleep with earphones on every night as I find it impossible to fall asleep in silence. It is astounding how the brain seamlessly incorporates the sounds from my headphones into my dreams.

Listen to a rainforest and I'll often find myself in a dream in the middle of one. I sometimes listen to sci-fi drama as I drift off and as long as the story is long enough eventually when I'm dreaming either the narration or sound effects are brought to life in my dreams.

Its like my brain just listens to the audio and adds its own special effects to a movie I'm taking part in.