Kalam Debate: @CapturingChristianity vs. @rationalityrules - Steve’s Opening Statement

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Cam’s Kalam:

1) There is a first cause.
2) If there is a first cause, then God exists.
3) God Exists.

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References:

4). José Bernadette | An Essay in Metaphysics, 1964.

5). Alexander Pruss | Infinity, Causation, and Paradox, pg4.

7). Graham Oppy | Philosophical Perspectives on Infinity, pg 88, 89.

#RationalityRules #CapturingChristianity #Kalam

[rationalityrules]

The letter 'n' is missing from "Modus ponens". I apologise for this. My Libra auto-corrects, and I didn't pick this up until someone messaged me after I had published the video. So to be clear, my entire rebuttal is now worthless, and my next video will be me committing Seppuku :P

[HolyKoolaid]

Plot twist: the floating ball of light you find on the hike is actually God.

[jackdaniels]

The reason I cannot take Cameron seriously is because he made an argument for contingency on his page and challenged anyone to find a flaw in it. I found several flaws (and I wasn't the only one) and when I politely pointed this out, he chose to just abandon the conversation, delete a great many of my responses and block me. I then saw that he was still asking people to find a flaw in his argument as though it hadn't been pointed out to him. Very dishonest.

[homelessengineer]

"We have no idea what an uncaused thing looks like. That's why I know exactly which properties I can assign to it"

[waterfallhunter]

Cameron's entire argument: I don't understand infinity, therefore GOD

[StumpGrinderOfficial]

Man, Cameron's argument is so embarrassingly self defeating that it's genuinely amazing to see it presented with that trademark unironic smugness.

[bluevayero]

When your argument isn't sound, you overstate its validity

[vladislav]

Fred IS dead, you simply cannot determine which grim reaper killed him. Like you can measure where an electron is but not how fast it is moving at the same time.

[careneh]

The issue with _any_ argument is that one _must_ check whether the resulting claim _actually_ reflects reality. It's just not possible to "prove" _anything_ with an argument. As Feynman famously said: _If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. And that simple statement is the key of science. It doesn't make a difference how beautiful your guess [i.e., model or theory or argument] is. It doesn't make a difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is; if it disagrees with experiment: wrong. That's all there is to it._

[d.o.m.]

And the god that exists is always their version of god.

[mysteriousmeteor]

Stephen could you please make a video debunking Sadhguru? He spreads a lot of
quasi-religious pseudoscientific claims but unfortunately he is very influential.

[justinboivin]

Great video, RR. I think the flaw in most theist logic is that they start (either consciously or unconsciously) with the idea of God based on religious doctrine. Most thought around it seems to be formed as means of justifying a pre-existing belief, rather than arriving at that belief through logical reasoning.

They typically don't consider, or logically eliminate other possibilities that could fall under theism or athesim depending on definitions. A self organizing universe that is becoming conscious, or an always conscious universe? One with a unified or fragmented consciousness? What about more finite, limited versions of "God"? One that has a beginning and end? What if there is a conscious element to other self organisation systems; say a Galaxy, would that fall under a "God" definition, or would it be considered like another organism?

Also, the more conditions and qualities added to the description of God (having a will, a mind, a gender, intentions, a sense of self, a son etc...) the less likely he/it exists. The existence of the christian god is almost not worth debating in a sphere of rational discourse, because really, there is no rational justification for that belief.

I have more respect for people who admit "Its just something I choose to believe" or "Its blind faith"; at least that is intellectually honest.

[DoktaVenom]

With all due respect, I love your videos but even doing a “debate” like this with this guy lends him a credibility he does not deserve.

[CallMeChato]

Nice to see that Cameron has avoided being is usual obnoxious self. He’s still wrong.

[Jbird]

You steel-manning his grim reaper argument was just satisfying beautiful 😍

[Deioth]

3:09 I imagine Matt Dillahunty staring into his computer screen at this point and nodding approvingly

[Griexxt]

The first premise in every argument for God’s existence is ”the God I already believe in for other reasons, exists”.

[n-ds]

As a mathematician, my take on the grim reaper paradox is that the question "Which reaper killed Fred?" is flawed. This is the question after the earliest grim reaper, but that is simply not a question that can be asked about arbitrary sets.

Only because this question can be asked about most sets we interact with, makes that hard to believe for us. But assuming that this question can be asked is not a given.

If we go to a more abstract example, it is easier for us to not assume this.

1) 1 is a positive number
2) the half of a positive number is still positive
3) every positive number is bigger than another positive number, since by 2) it's half is also positive

Now let's start with x=0 and increase it, then it has to get positive at some point, since it will at some point be bigger than 1. This is the setting of the grim reaper paradox. Now the grim reaper paradox asks the question which positive number is the first one that x passes. But by 3 there cannot be a first one. This "implies" that there are not infinitely many positive numbers.

But this implication is flawed, since 3 also implies that there are infinitely many of them. Rather the question "which is the smallest?" is just not one we can ask.

[j.r.qwertz]

And Cameron has to prove that the first cause is a conscious being.

[Budymierdas]

I sell large and small denumerable, physical infinities, and large and small denumerable, physical infinitiy accesories