Why Non-CS Majors Are The Top 1% Of Software Engineers

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✉️c o n t a c t ✉️

00:00 - Why bootcamp grads are the best software engineers
00:55 - Part 1: Scammy nature of the industry
04:03 - Part 2: Non-cs majors I worked with
11:44 - Part 3: What we can learn from them

[Fran-kcgu]

Totally true, but there's a big difference between a self taught engineer who learned because he saw a video and the lifestyle looked cool, and other engineer who was self taught but because he used linux since high school, they're not the same

[woolfel]

I've been working as a software engineers for 20+ years. Over the years, I've been lucky enough to work with a few exceptional engineers. The top 3 I know did not have CS degree. One has a MS in chemistry, one dropped out sophmore year to work full time the third dropped out of CS to work. If I include famous developers I follow, half have CS degree.

The common traits for the top engineers I know: love to learn, passion for the subject matter and doesn't have a bloated ego.

[ibendover]

It's been a mixed bag from personal experience and really depends on the individual rather than their pathway. Though I will say, some of the most knowledgeable devs I've known went the CS route. Especially the ones who are able to explain the 'whys' rather than just the 'hows'. Particularly useful when dealing with very complex non-standard problems. This is something I've personally never seen a bootcamp dev be able to do. Some of them do tend to pump out work faster though. Going back to the original point, I've seen good and bad devs from both sides overall.

[eugenevedensky]

Boot camp dev here who previously worked in faang's, 7 years in industry now. I've out performed CS grads for a couple reason:

- Interpersonal advantage due to managing restaurants. Engineers often hate communicating, being willing to lean into coordination and communication is a highly leveraged skill.
- Grinding out self study for hours on end feels good compared the alternative of working 70 hours a week of physical labor. Natural hunger from years of non competitive salary jobs instill a natural hunger that is almost impossible to compete with.
- As others have said, coding is the easiest part of the job as you grow in seniority. Previous real life experience allows non cs grads to really shine in the 'non-coding' aspects of the job.

Great video.

[Rockyzach]

Survivorship bias js. The one's who do succeed are going to be better than usual as well. This isn't saying you can't be good with those things, but if you take the same person and give them a formal CS education, I think they would be even better. Don't let it stop you if you want to become a programmer though.

[XDBjoernXD]

I can only share with everyone that effort counts. For example, I applied as an Android Developer because I already had knowledge in that area and wanted to build upon it. However, during the interview, it became clear that they weren't looking for someone in that role, but rather someone skilled in web development with Javascript. I was so impressed by their kindness and felt so comfortable among the people that I decided to dive into a completely new area. For me, it was absolutely worth it because it's only within a good team and with strong self-initiative that one learns a lot.

[cody_codes_youtube]

I love your insight! I think this is survivorship bias, however. In my 15 years, I also know amazing self taught devs. But I think they stand out because of their history. The vast majority of amazing devs I know do have a CS degree. Self taught and boot camp can nurture the insane grit and endless drive to get better, but it’s definitely not normal from my experience. (NOTE: I wrote this comment before watching every minute. I added another comment in the replies)

[m-ok-]

These people are natural developers and something like bootcamp showed them what they are capable of. Nobody should think completing some program will make you a rockstar developer smoking something.

[karld]

Some non CS majors switch from a non-software to software job within the same industry. Such as lab or hardware work to software development so they know a lot about the software needed. They often start switching because they need software for a project and they can’t get software developer time.

[arjayarjay]

Thanks for making this video and sharing your thoughts with us. Salute to you and and your coworkers mentioned in the video.

[uomek]

It's often the difference between coders vs problem solvers.

Being able to code is the easiest part of the job.

[alexnoman]

I learned Pascal to solve my math homework with. Then I learned about drawing pixels with code and made local multiplayer versus games to play with friends. Then I realized I needed some kind of job and went for programmer. I can imagine someone starting with "hey, programmers make good money!" but that will likely not work that well without intrinsic motivation.

[cyanogen]

I personally don't do well in standardized learning environments so college was and still is something I won't do because I know it doesn't do anything for me. So I went down the self learning and work experience route and have advanced at a very quick pace thus far. Everyone learns differently and great minds come out of both sides.

[foxtailed-tt]

I really appreciate the video you created. Your explanation was clear, and I'm grateful for your insights into the three points you mentioned earlier. Additionally, thank you for helping me resolve the dilemma I was facing.

[KineticCode]

im a self taught dev. the "expecting to get a job when ur done with college" applies to bootcamp grads as well. that's the entire point of the bootcamp. you go through and you say to yourself "ok im job ready" and if it doesn't work out some people have the surprised pikachu face and can't move forward. i agree with the comments where it really depends on the person. there are people that learn hello world and have their hands out waiting for someone to give them a job, and there are people who apply themselves and learn because they like the field.

[tsunamio]

0:28 "Successful" self-taught people are super rare. They are motivated. Because they lack degrees, recruiters reject most of them, except the few that have a proof of competence.
Therefore, you are faced with a population that is skilled not by the mean, but because of selection. TL;DR: Most self-taught are shit, but the few ones that are hired, they are hired thanks to undeniable proof of excellence and an injustly harsh selection.

[asfasfd]

Maybe for the average, low-tier grunt positions. The best programmers I've known usually have a master's in CS or something similar like math.

[JohnLandgrave]

I think one of the biggest things that isn't mentioned here is humility. Even if you are getting a CS degree. Our field is so big and there is so much domain specific knowledge in any given tech stack / industry / company that lacking the humility to say "I don't know this specific thing, will you reach me about it?" will prevent you from excelling as an SE: even (and maybe especially) if you're in the first group.

Group 1's with the humility to ask for instruction and a whole other level because they ask to be taught and get it immediately, and the "time to value" that they can deliver on that new info is super small.

[ExistentialSadness]

I have a software engineer job with economics degrees, meanwhile my friends with CS bachelor's can't even get a job. Well, because university alone doesn't mean anything if you don't have the knowledge.

[JD]

I've wanted to learn programming for years. I spent several months learning Java script in high school(almost a decade ago) but it just didn't stick. The free course i was doing was difficult and poorly explained so I just gave up. Eventually after many years of teaching English(which just happened as I live abroad) I realized I needed to find something I really wanted to do and actually put in the time and money. Free courses are better now but paid stuff is best. I want to be a programmer because I'm passionate about tech and love problem solving and finding new solutions. So I am willing to persevere until I get a job I want.