N.T. Wright on Christus Victor AND Penal Substitution (both/and)

Tom Wright speaks on theories of the atonement at Fuller Seminary.

[JonathanGrandt]

But…. He didn’t mention the wrath of God being appeased by punishing Jesus…

[AarmOZ]

I agree. Once you understand Christ's victory over sin and death, other atonement theories act as elaborations of Christus Victor rather than as competing atonement theories.

[davidnenadov]

Is there a link to the complete message?

[davidgrasch]

What is the original video that this comes from?

[matthewturner]

Well, this should put the Calvinists on tilt.

[linasaidso]

Such good teaching, but isn't it awful how those "rock band at the front" churches always leave such a cluttered mess in the background for the speaker?

[ehrenschopenhauer]

Enoch and Elijah never even died. So how is that not until Jesus' death and resurrection that the powers of sin and death vanquished?

[SOWWHATAPOLOGETICS]

And in other interviews he outright condemns penal substitutionary atonement. He makes a mockery of it and says God is evil if the doctrine is true.

[lukewagner]

1 Peter 4:1-2, 12-13 KJVS
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. [12] Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: [13] But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

[kaleomariz]

Who first put human in bondage to the evil powers from which Christ came to save us?

Answer: Humanity!

So penal substitution wins! We are not only slaves to sin, WE ARE SIN!

[davidsykes]

How this man can be recognized as a teacher of the gospel is beyond my comprehension! He is confusing and says nothing but he uses lofty verbiage. Utter nonsense. The book of Romans is not hard to understand. Wright also conveniently disregards Ephesians 2:8-10 Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Wright has a very skewed understanding of the gospel.

[lawrence]

Neither Penal Substitution nor Christus Victor is correct.

[barrypatrickius]

All of this is nice but speculative and maybe true-- but penal substitution is a fact and the center of our