The Problem With Aikido Students

I want to talk to y'all about the Problem with Aikido Students.

This is all based on what I observed when I visited an Aikido school back in Nashville about 5 years ago. I talked about that visit in my video, The Problem with Aikido, but I didn't say everything I wanted to say in the video which is why I'm making a follow-up video.

So before I dive in to everything, I want to share something that Rokas said recently in his video, "Was I wrong about Aikido?"

This line about if Aikido is being trained in the right way is exactly what I was driving at as The Problem with Aikido in my last video, but before I start to unpack everything, let me backtrack, just in case you didn't actually see the last video.

Okay, so I study an internal martial art called Zhong Xin Dao Il Liq Chuan. Just to keep things simple, I'll say that it is very similar to Taijiquan because it's based on the Taiji Principles.

I got my start in Chinese martial arts with Wushu while I was in the Navy because I was planning to become a stuntman after I finished my contract.

So I was looking to check out a local Aikido school in Nashville because I knew there was a lot of choreographed routines; I would get to practice learning how to fall and roll; and I was also hoping to be able to practice with a lot of people who were doing something internal.

Now if you don't know what I mean when I say that I wanted to be able to practice with people doing something Internal, well... I'll just say that if you study Aikido, then you just might also be a victim to what I consider to be the Problem with Aikido.

#Aikido #MartialArts #GoldenBellTraining
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[paulhedges]

I used to practice Aikido, and much of what you say is right. I'd tried various martial arts, but was drawn by the philosophy and spirituality of Aikido, and wasn't so interested in learning to fight, but across a half dozen or so teachers in various places and over almost 15 years I saw big differences. My main teacher was a 6th dan and had trained at a place called the Hut in London's East End - back in the day a rough place (and an early UK Aikido centre) - and he clearly knew how to make it work, but interestingly he was also into not hurting people and he'd show us, from his early days, the older style aiki techniques with much harsher joint locks, talk about the strikes used (knees, gouges, everything), and would often say we don't do this any more and know we harmonise. We had a boxer in his school and he could make everything work on the jabs and stuff he threw, often by simplifying the aikido. What he didn't really explain, which another teacher did (who also did various striking arts) was the principles behind it, so that you weren't learning "techniques" (the curriculum) but body mechanics, which I think was never explicit traditionally. The idea was, I think, that if you were good you'd work it out yourself. But this other teacher was much more in the AikdoFlow style, of making it modern and to work as a thing for the streets. But I also went to schools where harmony was such a big thing that you were just meant to fall for people no matter what, and I got told off for not falling after somebody had "done" the technique - whereas in my main schools, if people didn't put you down you didn't go down (else how do people learn?), which isn't to say that there wasn't cooperation and blending - especially as you were teaching new folks, but as we got more experienced we resisted each other much more and also, at the higher levels, there were the counter techniques - but a lot of schools didn't seem to have this at all. So, basically, yeah, the problem, I think, is often how it's taught, but also, even in many good schools, the emphasis is not on learning to fight but developing yourself to blend and harmonise, which is not a bad thing, but Aikido's ethos can mitigate against actually learning any practical fighting. Having said that, of various martial arts I have learned, Aikido has been the most useful for me in the real world: when I've fallen over or gone down, I've known how to roll and fall without hurting myself; when the random dude with an improvised club tried to bash my head in and rob me, because I'd done Aiki weapons I could distance myself and get out of harm's way in a way that boxing/ MMA/ etc. distancing and fighting styles just don't teach you - I got behind them, had disarmed him, then I was out of there as fast as I could rather than mess around, while the guy searched in the dark for his stick/ club/ whatever it was and was long gone before he started after me. I mean I realise that most of the Aikido I learned wouldn't help me against a trained MMA/ BJJ person, but I think in a rounded curriculum it has it's place, primarily in knowing distancing against weapons, and falling, but the locks and escapes from holds are also useful. Most Aikido schools, however, won't necessarily teach you to do it well - having been in quite a few schools, most didn't teach well or usefully, and almost all students wouldn't have learned anything they could use except in the dojo with a compliant partner I think.

[robertw]

I'm not an Aikido student, but I am a student of martial disciplines. I liked your video, your calm explanations, your lack of bashing, and your questioning of some things which others consider sacrosanct (and thus not questionable). Well done!

[CraigHocker]

For any Aikido student wondering about this, go get a copy of the latest edition of Ellis Amdur's book, "Hidden in Plain Sight: Esoteric Power Training Within Japanese Martial Traditions". That's a very thorough treatment of the internal aspects of what Ueshiba Sensei was up to. As for the idea that he got anything directly during his trips to China/Manchuria, that's been convincingly debunked for years now (see historical work by the late Stanely Pranin). The plain fact is that most modern Chinese arts have next to zero if any real internal understanding despite claims otherwise. Why? the training is tedious, takes years, very few had it to begin with, and as Prince notes, you still have to know how to fight, it's a layer on top of basic skills, not a replacement for those skills. Learning it is one thing, applying it usefully is a whole higher level.

[Phyralis]

i trained in aikido since i was 6 until i graduated high school and i find what you're saying is true and relateable.. we were told how to do techniques, how to do basics, how to break falls, how to throw people, but never taught about the meaning or the philosophies behind the movements. it was all about curriculum and about passing to the next rank, and i also had the same take that the actual aikido training will only start when you reach the 1st or 2nd dan.. My big sensei back then was a 4th dan, and being considered as the highest ranked sensei in my city.. his posture was small and scrawny (probably around 157 or 160 cm in height), but he can literally manipulate anyone no matter how big that person is.. he got this different feel about how he acts, it more like a kind of tranquility in everything he do. The problem with our trainings was, he (the big sensei) never teach the kids/teen classes, he only teach the adult classes. and from the little experience i had trained by him, i think he only gives some little hints about the aiki.. he taught us a tiny bit about how to do some detailed movements, but he never actually mentioned about aiki or the philosophies behind it..

Recently, i found an old book in my university's library titled "Aikido with Ki", written by Koretoshi Maruyama, supervised by Koichi Tohei. Quite an old book first printed on March 1984.. It explained about the 4 philosophies of the aiki in aikido and how the philosophies being applied in aikido techniques. and it blew my mind, because those hints my big sensei gave us back then are starting to make sense... Turns out it takes more than aikido training to master aikido.. and i definitely not ready to understand or even master it..

All in all, great video!! and keep up the good work! PEACE

[rasalghul]

I like the humble and sincere take this video has. The guy is calling out the entire Aikido community to stop the bullshit and do the work if you want the top-tier skills and capabilities. This call for action is more than fair and honest.

[josephsekavec]

The problem with aikido students is they study aikido.

[gordonlewis]

Exceptional, thoughtful, insightful and appropriately modest analysis of the continuing issues of Aikido. Congratulations on your scholarship and spirit.

[cathynmckenna]

I am not a very well practiced student of Aikido, but I am in full agreement with you. The part of your commentary that spoke loudest to me is where the woman in the class didn't think her room-mate would make a good uke because he wouldn't cooperate with the technique being trained. If the uke *must* cooperate with the technique in order for it to work, then it is either not being taught correctly, or is just not a good technique. There's a conceit where the uke cooperates to the point where the technique only need be gently applied, to avoid injury, but beyond that, the technique, correctly taught and trained, then correctly applied, should work, every time.

[yusefnelson]

In my study of the martial arts I have found that Aikido derives mainly from the martial art of Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, but began to diverge from it in the late 1920s, partly due to Ueshiba's involvement with the Ōmoto-kyō religion. Ueshiba's early students' documents bear the term aiki-jūjutsu. It originally was a form of Jujitsu and in its purest form it is an art to be reckon with.
My background in the martial arts is mostly Japanese forms of martial art with a little bit of Taoist Yoga, Yang Form Tai Chi and some Kung Fu mixed in. I studied Four different types of Karate, Three different types of Jujitsu, Judo, and Aikido. The Aikido instructor I first had was a jujitsu and Tai Chi master so he knew what was missing from the curriculum. If you really look at the upper echelon of Aikido masters you can see the difference.

[henrysim]

You are absolutely correct in what you said. I have learned different styles of martial arts especially Aikido. I also learned from both Sam Chin and Dan Harden. Both are excellent teachers. I am only a beginner. Martial arts without AIKI are just fighting techniques (katas) or exercises almost like body building, gymnastics etc. AIKI is learning how our body functions and how to maximize this knowledge to generate/redirect power. Having "mastering" AIKI alone does not make you a "good" fighter or a "REAL" martial artist. All martial arts have some form of AIKI even "external" style martial arts. Dan Harden said "Not the weight of a feather can be added nor a fly can alight." that is one simple example of AIKI in motion.

[evanbowen]

I really appreciate the spirit with which you approach this. There are many schools of aikido, each springing from the students that Ueshiba-sensei kept closest to him, and diverging with each of their own students who went on to teach, and so on. Each dojo is different. Each instructor is different. Some places are more ki-oriented, and some are more mechanics, physics, and anatomy-oriented. Aiki-kai is very different than Ki-Society aikido.

Likewise, each instructor is a human being, with their own flaws and strengths. This is true for any art, martial or otherwise, yes? And some instructors have 'it'. And some don't. Is this not the case for Tai-Chi, or watercolor painting, or baseball? There are masters and hacks in every discipline.

I respectfully feel that it might be less than fair to generalize an entire art based upon a visit to a dojo.

[alanarroyo]

"Playing the game without putting the work" Seriously my friend you could not have said it any better, that is exactly how it is.

[walterjackson]

Keen insights from a guy who simply emanates humility and an earnest openness.

[lukeywalsh]

I was exposed to Aikido Around 1975 at the age of 14. Life took my sensei and me in other directions, so I never developed expertise or rank. That said, the short at the dojo still improved everything about my approach to physical movement. Basketball defense and shots improved. Even boxing punches had more power because I always "kep weight underside" with an awareness of my center.
- Beore each class we spent a hour in meditation and ki development.
- There were many techniques that simply did not work if the student wasn't "extending" ki.
- Techniques were not taught in 1-2-3 steps. They were performed in continuous movments.
- Hand techniques were subservient to evade and redirect movements. Even if the hand teqnique didn't go as planned, the student evaded harm and had good balance while the 'attacker' went stumbling out of control.

Thank you for making this video.

[TaiChiGhost]

I am one of the old time students, from back during the time of only two "systems." They were called Tomeiki (no pain techniques) and the Tohei (with pain techniques.) My teacher learned Aikido in Japan (from two third degree black belts, ) just after the close of WW II. Prior to this time, if you wanted to learn Aikido, you had to have a black belt in either Judo or Karate, better yet both. You also had to present two letters of recommendation from prominent citizens, preferably of the Administrative/Legislative type. After the war, Ueshiba released Aikido to the general public to help Japan regain its' status as a "world leader." These two missing arts are a major part of "what's wrong" with Aikido.

[tiaght]

Check out some of the teachers in the ASU headed by Mitsugi Saotome Shihan, such asHiroshi Ikeda, George Ledyard, William Gleason, and the late Kevin Choate to name a few.They are all exploring and teaching a much less technique based aikido;, concerned more with principals like connection, center, relaxation, etc. and less with simply perfecting a performance, which for the most part is what cooperative technique based aikido practice is all about,

[thestorytellerscorner]

Really nice video @goldenbell training! I’ve just been bitten by the aikido bug and am at a Dojo in Congleton, UK. There are… maybe about 8 or 9 different “types” (schools) of aikido and the one most closely associated with Ōsensei and his family is Aikikai. Within Aikikai there are instructors who teach with “it” and those who don’t. “It” being chi (in Japanese it’s called ki) or a life force. I love my own dojo, because we cultivate that ki first and foremost - the techniques come second. But using it, we can really see how attackers can be flipped to the ground before they even know what happened. Respect.

[keats]

Probably the best video I've seen regarding Aikido and Tai Chi. So many people don't get it. I would love to study Aikido because from Tai Chi, I learned how to apply principles not just moves. One Tai Chi story, I was in a class with a guy who studied with me from zero on up. We had studied for 6 months, and in push hands, I could beat him about 9 out of 10 times. I took ONE MONTH OFF. When I came back, I couldn't beat him--at all, not even one match in 10. He beat me every single time. He said, "you're just out of practice." Partly true, I was, but he had improved too--quite a bit. There's this sense you get. I thought of it as listening, where you can feel force, momentum, pressure, and changes in the same...call it what you will, with your whole body. I understand it. I can still do it. But it's not the same as when you practice every day.

[catitonavarro]

I've had a couple of aikido instructors and none of them did the bull crap. Each student did resist and they did put torque and they would throw you. It was like getting caught up in a tornado and couldn't get out of it. I think it depends on the mentality of the person who trains and the way they train. I definitely wouldn't just do aikido for sure but just like boxing or wrestling each has its place. I have been able to use my aikido functionally. When it comes down to it it's just the art of learning how to properly lock and throw someone or control the balance which is in more than one style.

[lewisb]

The problem with Aikido students is a lot of them don't realize that it's the garnish not the meal, I don't see Aikido as a martial art I see it as a philosophy and conflict management system however, I have studied Asian studies at post grad level (Inspired by my martial arts training) if you go to Japan a lot of Aikido practitioners do either Judo or a form of karate as well as Aikido. Those who pair it with Judo use it like a karate practitioner would use their soft training.