Heroes Don't Have to Be Boring | On Writing

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Tim Hickson
PO Box 69062
Lincoln, 7608
Canterbury, New Zealand

Script by meeeeeeeee
Video edited by Lalit Kumar

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Tim

[tinyknott]

What made cpt. America work so extremely well in the MCU was that despite being a paragon through and through, he wasn't naive. He understood that there was rationale behind the other perspectives. Him and Iron Man ending up at odds with each other was the perfect culmination of virtue ethics vs consequence ethics, and both could respect the other side but be convinced that their side was the right one. That's one way of describing the paragon btw, the personification of virtue. There's a moral compass, not a moral equation. The consequentialist will do the math, while the paragon will have an instinctual ethic (of course, they're never 100% either or, you need some reasoning to sustain virtue, and you need some baseline virtue assumptions to be able to do consequentialist equations anyway).

[sullyschwartz]

Another great example of Captain America being a great hero is how, before he ever got the serum, he jumped over a dummy grenade at boot camp (thinking it was a real, live one) in order to 'save' everyone else. He even waved at others to run and get away, shouting at them to leave him. Paragons are often best shown as Paragons when the character is without power, safety, or ither comforts, yet still fully follow their morals/'duties'.

[ManiaMac]

The reason people think Superman and Captain America are boring is because doing the right thing is rarely difficult for them. They're superheroes, of course they're going to do the right thing. And they're strong enough to do the right thing with little effort.

But stories that subvert this are fascinating. In the MCU, Captain America, the perfect soldier, frequently breaks rank in order to save his friends. In the Justice League cartoon, Superman struggles with Lex Luthor turning public opinion against him. A morally straightforward hero in a morally complex world has lots of potential for great stories.

[davidfwooldridge]

Paragons are actually my favorite archetype, particularly paired with extremely amoral characters. Where I went to was the StarTrek episode “In the Pale Moonlight” where Sisko (a paragon character) increasingly becomes dragged into dirtier and dirtier business for a noble goal and has to partner with Garak, who is the most amoral and dirty of heroes. Things do not go well and when Sisko confronts Garak over the complete destruction of his principles for the greater good Garak makes the speech that ends with:

“T hat's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing? Well, it worked. And you'll get what you want: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain.”

Oof, and the best part, Sisko ends the episode with a journal entry insisting that he can live with himself, when it is clear that he doesn’t think he can.

Perfect. Paragons are great archetypes, because it is potent when what is right is stood up for, and they can let us explore the cost of that. Was Garak right leads to a lot of soul searching for the audience, and hopefully growth.

[berengustav]

Chosen Ones like Percy Jackson, Avatar Aang, Lyra Belacqua actually have personality in the Form of sass, but Hollywood thinks The Chosen One must be bland for self insertion.

[dekuisagreatmaincharacter]

I’ve always felt like a bit of a weirdo for liking pure-hearted heroes so much when everyone around me prefers morally ambiguous or antihero protagonists, so thank you for making this video.

As an example you didn’t mention, Adora from She-Ra and The Princesses of Power is a paragon who always does what’s right and sees the best in people, but still is an amazing character.

[MarshyoftheBlobs]

I've got Trigun brainrot right now but Vash is one of the best paragons in media in my opinion. He's a gunslinger who refuses to kill, and his choice to be a pacifist definitely has very negative consequences, innocents still die even when he refuses to kill. In fact at times that causes more to actually suffer. Wolfwood is his antihero foil, who is quite willing to kill, and is changed by Vash's ideals, to a tragic end. Everyone should watch/read Trigun, preferably all versions.

[axolofa]

People seem to think that paragons are boring, and I think it's because you rarely see them given interesting challenges. The paragon always does the right thing, so putting them in a situation where they have to choose between right and obvious wrong doesn't work.

If you have a character who's perfect in every way, you need to find different ways to challenge them. Give them a loved one with a terminal disease they can't do anything about, or a complex conflict between two parties with no clear good/bad, or whatever else. You don't challenge a character with superhuman strength by asking them to punch even harder this time. Know your heroes, and know their struggles.

[bode]

One of the things I love about Ned Stark is that years after his death, other character still respect his name and the people associated with him. He’s such a paragon that his impact is still felt even after he’s been gone for a long time.

[HiThereImLily]

While I get it's important not to put your characters in boxes, it's also good to know what tropes they fall under so you know what mistakes to avoid.

[unclechair]

When I saw the tittle the first thing that popped into my mind was the few pannels of Superman flying to a girl that is standing on the edge of a building and she just says, ,I am not ready to talk" and you see for the next pannels him just floating next to her without a word as the day ends... Moments like this are how you really do a hero, even Deadpool had a moment like that (there was a comic dub that really gave it justice but I don't remember who made it)

[theofficalchairmanrevoluti]

My favorite Superman movie is called Superman VS The Elite. It's a film about Superman meeting a brand new group of superheroes whom the public favors over Superman, as they can get the job done without worrying about the morality that Superman is "restricted" by. They think he's outdated and not appropriate for the modern era. Superman sticks to who he is and tries to show the world that old fashioned goodness still has a place in the world.

I think this is excellent commentary on the effectiveness of the paragon archetype. While many view them as boring and no longer interested enough for modern audiences, this movie shows that they can be. I love how the movie comments on both a thematic level within it's own self-contained narrative and also on a meta one with how they show that paragons are still awesome.

[MGDrzyzga]

Paragon might be too strong a term - but when you mentioned the Doctor getting literally millions of planets coming to his aid? Reminds me of FMA (well Brotherhood since I haven't read the manga), when we have all the secondary and tertiary characters lending a hand. The protagonist's kindness being paid back by all the people they've helped coming to their aid - I mean, that just sounds like a perfect scene for a paragon.

And that's exactly why my favorite bit from any superhero movie is Spiderman 2, when Spidey stops the train, passes out from the strain, and all the people on the train stand up to Doc Ock for him.

[minisquirtle]

My newest favorite moment for Captain America was I think in Civil War. The comic. He turns himself in after seeing the chaos caused and as the citizens are giving him a mixture of confused comments, insults, and thrown items, he jumps in front of someone else to save them from getting shot. As he's bleeding out, he still is only concerned with the people. The same people were moments ago rewarded his decades of kindness with thrown tomatoes.

I really love paragon characters and people who just wanna help people because they're just good people

[Oakleaf]

My Pavlovian response to hearing “a wizard did it” is so ingrained now that I started instinctively bobbing my head exactly on the starting beat 😂

[nancyjay]

One of the things I liked was actually a scene in this video. After General Ross presents the Avengers with the Sorkovia Accords, most of the heroes immediately take a position on them. Meanwhile, Steve Rogers is reading the entire book, looking at everything there before trying to form an opinion. Team Cap!

[nowhereman]

All Star Superman was one of the most fun stories I've read in a long time.

[vanaheimstories]

I think what makes The Doctor an interesting Paragon character is he knows what he’s capable and during the Time War he did things that he would’ve never done. And so that’s what makes him a a paragon character. He knows the Darkness in him and so with a smile and a screwdriver her helps people. But don’t forget that his Companions are what keep him as a Paragon character

[lukeskywalkerthend]

I love my morally complex, deep, flawed characters as much as the next guy, but I can't help but just love paragon characters so much when they're done so well. They inspire me to be a better person, and makes me believe that even in a dark, complicated world they're still can be people that represent the best of humanity, kindling some light in the darkness, no matter how hard it can be.

[AbisexualCarpenter]

Mob from mob psycho 100 is a paragon who struggles a lot with his feelings, even more than with most adversaries