EPISODE 41 - Trans: A Conversation with Helen Joyce

Quick Notes:
The New York Times describes Helen Joyce’s book, Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality, as “an intelligent, thorough rejoinder to an idea that has swept across much of the liberal world seemingly overnight”. Joyce reminds us that her book is not about trans people, but rather, it is about the idea “that people should count as men or women according to how they feel and what they declare, instead of their biology”. Helen explains the ways it’s more acceptable for men to “give up some privilege” and strategies women in other cultures have used to opt out of unfavourable circumstances. Perhaps denying sex leads to a perfectly clear demonstration of just how different men and women can be. We also reflect on the differences between American’s tendency to double-down on bad policy and the hopefulness Helen feels with the unfolding UK reckoning with gender self-id. In this episode we discuss the many ramifications of “you are exactly who you say you are.”

Links:
Helen Joyce’s Website:

Book Review by Jesse Singal

Helen’s interview with Andrew Doyle:

Stella’s Book Review in The Evening Standard:


The End of the World is Flat by Simon Edge:

Survivorship Bias:

Small Gods by Terry Pratchett:

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This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

[janmariolle]

“A lot of us feel unconfident in our own judgements….and don’t want to stand out against our own tribe.” This idea really described my experience as I began to notice with growing alarm, this new ideology which I experienced as homophobic and regressive was being supported by institutions that once championed Gay/Lesbian rights.
As I began to take a closer look into the issue of “trans kids” all my alarm bells went off as well as the emergency sirens.
I talked to everyone I knew about this issue and was extremely disappointed with the general response from those within my “tribe.” It’s tough to be left twisting in the wind when trusted resources are captured by this belief system. What happened to reality? What happened to safeguarding children? I’m left with the lonely feeling that my tribe is enchanted and my voice is too small or insignificant to be heard.

[keyboarddancers]

Helen Joyce is an *EXCELLENT* speaker. Several fascinating facts came to light for me during the conversation but the stand out one was the GRA here in Britain which does not allow for trans-primogeniture based inheritance. Almost like an obscure pub quiz question!

[sister]

I am going to the National Day of Protest in Canada today Sept 18 /21 to say No to male prisoners transferring into women’s prisons. 1-3 pm local time in any of the five federal female institutions . Thank you for looking into this Helen - I am over myself with this.🇨🇦 waiting patiently for my copy that Amazon says I will not get till October 😤

[Call-Me-Sam]

This morning I contacted the GRC in the uk. I asked what the process is for me to change my gender recognition cert back to male. I have to medically detransition, bank accounts, passport, driving license and then be psyche evaluated.... Who is delusional ? me wanting to acknowledge reality yet remain as I feel comfortable or the system that wants to deny reality.
I'm content with transition but no longer want to Officially deny the reality that I am male and was born male and will die male. The dissonance between fiction and reality is damaging to my relationship with self and living truthfully.
What a ridiculous mess.

[irisElee]

Of course sex isn't "assigned "at birth. The Sex Assignment Wizard: "Nurse, pass the sorting hat!" It's observed and recorded - like height and weight.

[frusia]

How come I haven't come across Stella's podcast earlier! Well I'm glad I'm here now, thank you for this fantastic conversation 🙂

[SuperLchilds]

The male who trans' he is not giving up male privilege he is gaining access to women only spaces!

[uncleskipsprairiejustice]

re: self ID - "“When I use a word, ’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ ’The question is, ’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’’ The question is, ’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

[tonyhoffman]

Something missing about the fafafine is that in families with only sons, one of the sons will be assigned a fafafine in order to fulfill the role of help mate to the mother as the role and chores required of women is too much for a mother to perform by herself. Fafafine is NOT SELF IDENTIFIED into by males and are not only gay males. They are assigned by elders.

[lindontilson]

One of the best discussions on the subject. Helen really breaks down the facts and redelivers them in layman's terms

[OsloTime]

Stella, Sasha and Helen, thank you for this very important and informative conversation! I just ordered Helen's book and am going to be reading it!

[lovelover]

You three are giving hope to the rest of us ❤ thank you for your work

[lauramiller]

I always learn something new every time I listen to Helen Joyce. I wish the U.S. had a similar thinker.

[Andy.A..]

I’ve really become concerned with this transgender movement over the last 2 years especially when I found out a close family friends 14 year old daughter had changed her name and was identifying as a boy now after never showing any signs of gender dysphoria and only after several of her friends came out as non binary. Her parents have now started affirming this with her and correct us if we use her “dead name” and I’m just so worried at the direction this is going in with these young girls and the lifelong consequences they face if they then take the next step to puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. I’ve been reading and listening to as many podcasts and debates as I can on the subject to try and educate myself as much as possible on the science and psychology of it all and I just have to say I’m really glad there are people like you guys and Helen out there that despite the backlash and hate I’m sure you’ve all received still continue to educate people on what’s really going on so thank you for that!

[beemacs]

OMG I re read 1984 right after reading Helen's book and she is 100% right this ideology really takes us into Orwellian territory. I lived this book and am sponsoring copies to be sent to my political rep not sure if she will read it as Sinn Fein already seem captured by this ideology for all the wrong reasons. It seems Ireland has been hyjacked by a new religion. Thank you for this podcast 👍👍👍

[paulondawula]

I haven't even listened yet. Already preliked. You guys? Helen Joyce? Automatic corker!!!

[mercurious]

Brilliant. I especially appreciate your compassion and level headed analythic approach. There's so much suffering involved and I fear this is only the beginning. How can we as individuals and as a society help all the people who leaves this dogma after being medicalised and had different kinds of surgery?

[Factoryflowers]

This may be the best conversation with Helen Joyce I’ve heard.

[corinnacohn]

Great interview. I really enjoyed the energy between you three and I hope you follow up with her again soon.

[cestmoi]

Another great conversation. I echo Stella- I love to have references. But a next steps reading list is a good second. Thank you for your work all.