AIR-BAG HELPER SPRINGS. ANY GOOD? | ASPW 4xOverland

What do I think of airbag helper springs for 4wds? Welcome to "4xoverland", ASPW's overlanding and 4WD channel. The world's first global 4WD adventure motoring channels.

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4xOverland is the world's only public-funded global 4WD adventure off-road motoring channel. Established in 1996, it is hosted by well known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White.

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[Dirksechzehn]

Airbags when mounted like in 10:40 is an absolute nightmare for the frame. Shows not the slightest understanding of swelling/oscillating forces. IF at all, the load must be distributed to a maximum of frame length. And then still the basic failure is: the vehicle is overloaded and will brake.
Very common mistake: big cabins on a pickup. Its not working, needs stronger springs, will break when used even in light offroad driving. It will. You'll completely lose the car in the midth of your trip because the frame will be welded to get you home finally and you have to replace it.

[edwardmunger]

I have Air bags fitted to my Hilux and I think they are great. I agree with Andrew that most chassis breaking is because of airbags but when you speak to those people you would find out that they overload their vehicles and pump the airbags to the max to prevent the car from sagging at the back. I use my Hilux for a daily driver so my OME suspension is set up for daily driving and medium loads but when I have the back loaded with our diving gear, some other basics and have the caravan hooked up I use the airbags to support the leave pack at the back. I never inflate the airbags more that a quarter of its capacity but find that it give additional stability while towing and I can control the sagging at the back to ensure the caravan in running straight. This does not affect my ride comfort as my Hilux drives like a dream loaded or unloaded so having airbags can be beneficial but it requires self restraint not to think you vehicle is now all of a sudden capable of carrying load it was never designed for. Thanks.

[TyFenwick]

Hi Andrew,

Airbags are a hit and miss. We have used them for over 12 years in mining vehicles. With that knowledge and seeing what fails I use this method.

I figure out what rate springs the vehicle needs when fully loaded, I remove around 15 to 25% of that spring rate then rate my mechanical springs to that.

The last remaining 15 to 25% we fit airbags to carry that extra. This give you the best balance I believe with the drivability and ride.

It also allows x3 sections of the chassis to carry it as even as possible.

😎

[trimat]

Air bags in coils make perfect sense if your occasionally towing a heavy caravan or similar. They do not affect the ride if used correctly. The trick is not to inflate the bags to their maximum pressure and overload the chassis. You don't need to pump them up hard to get back to normal ride height, just settle for lifting the back a little to recover some of the suspension travel. I never inflate mine beyond half their rated pressure. I wouldn't use them on a leaf sprung vehicle though, as the chassis isn't designed for the additional load point.

[petermills]

Well i've heard it all now, the chassis at the point directly above the axle has been designed for incredibly high impact loads as the springs compress as a pothole or washaway is unexpectedly hit. Just imagine the 900kgs or so on just one rear wheel whacking into the "bump stop" at high velocity as the standard shocks and springs of any vehicle give up the ghost at this time of impact. Yes Andrew the "bump stop" is a lump of rubber on many vehicles, some actually have an internal hollow and have an extended shape to soak up and slow down the velocity of the impact on part of the chassis well and truly designed for these loads. I reckon go have a talk to an actual chassis engineer and ask him/her about bump stop impacts and the possible high velocity loads this point is designed for. Worth a video maybe to remove the airbag stigma which they do not deserve. Remember many of us out here do not need superflexible leaf springs for superb offroad articulation which airbags definitely reduce, been there done that. We need and adjust our suspensions in many ways to give us that superb corrugated roads (and towing) ride for thousands of outback highway kilometres, been there doing that.
Go stick well designed airbags on the vehicle (maybe ones that do not permit shockers to bottom out at low pressures), run at lowest pressure possible when unloaded and bump it up as required to maintain a level ride when towing. Air bags at bump stop locations do not cause most chassis breakages, you should know many other issues are well up the list before the airbags take the blame, driver, speed, depth of washaways, mass of vehicle, load positioning, etc.

[beto]

The simply basics, keep it simple as its best. 100% agree with him.

[pdancrumpton]

I’ve been considering the airbag option for my wrangler because I’m towing an overland trailer and was just this week doing my homework. Shocking coincidence that you posted this video with such perfect timing. I have a towing problem and pretty certain now airbags are the answer.

[aslkdfjhg]

I'm not a expert but looking at some people's feedback, airbags are a good way to temporarily balance a load, provide better handling and reduce sway when towing. If you are almost always laden with weight, heavy duty suspension is preferable and smoother. There's no wrong decision, and airbags are generally a cheaper option then new suspension.

What I think we can all agree on is if you plan on towing 3t with a Prado with the family regularly, the safest option is to consider heavy duty suspension or airbags. You will have a much more enjoyable holiday with something to balance the load.

[jarlnieminen]

All areas of the chassis rails are designed for carrying load. In fact adding pressure to other areas spreads the overall pressure reducing the likelihood of failure. If your load is going to break the vehicle it's going to regardless off wether you fit an air again setup

[AussieDazza]

I use airbags when towing a Caravan, 20 psi does the trick.👍 They do work well in coils as long as you dont put too much air in them. With 20 psi, the coils still compress and extend no problem at all.

[thewdzone]

No reputable 4wd shop would/should recommend airbags for a constant load carrying situation. Airbags are idea for varying loads, vehicles that tow occasionally but are usually unladen. Suitable suspension is always the answer for vehicles with constant load.

[martysib]

Sorry Andrew, I can't help but try and pick holes in your argument.
Air bags on my Leaf patrol are mounted to where the bump stop was. This area would be engineered to handle the severe forces that are put through the chassis when bottoming out.
Marty from Perth

[Nafskie]

Wait! The chassis in a whole is made to distribute the load onto the suspension. Yes there are fixed points, but other points can be used properly to help relief the pressures of heavy loads.

I have both air spring helpers in coil and leaf spring applications. They are both adjustable with a special pump and the ride quality is perfect. In empty I lower the pressure to let the springs work, and loaded I increase the pressure to help stop the saggin so my headlights are not pointed up.

When done properly with quality parts air spring helpers are the best on and off the road.

I load two dirtbikes into the back of my defender 130 and with the ome long travel springs and air helper bags in the springs the ride is pleasant all the tine. In my tahoe I load it full with kids, gear and tow and the air bags in the coils give the back a boost and ride quality is not harsh at all.

I am running 20psi empty and 30psi fully loaded. Everything is happy, and in the last ten yrs never broke anything, if anything my shocks last longer and my swaybars also.

[capachin]

I could not agree more. Here in the states the best performing rigs do so on their regular spring configuration (leveraging the vast amount of engineering of the Manufacturer). We are lucky to have spring shops that have years of experience making replacements and upgrades for the way the truck is used. I have used their expertice in vocational trucks for decades with great satisfaction.

[LongStraightLines]

I've been running them on an 80 series for years. I constantly change from near empty to a decent load. The truck rides beautifully when empty but sags a little when full. The airbags level it out and make it more stable when loaded.
It's basic physics. Add load and your springs will compress and can't work the same due to reduced travel. The spring rate is also harsher when compressed.

[fabulousoffroaddesigns]

I vehemently disagree with your conclusion. The right air bags are a proper helper system, spreading the load on leaf sprung trucks especially. Personally I use a Air Lift 2000 system aired to 70% when loaded, and 10% when empty. I can also use them to help level at camp.

Most people over size their air springs and ruin the travel on their trucks, then swear off air forever.

The key for me is they can reduce some of the stress on the leaf pack, helping the leafs last longer. Also by maintaining ride height it helps allow the shock to use its full travel before bottoming, and bottoming causing shock loading the frame under weight is where things will get bent.

[dougggiereid]

Totally agree. I investigated air bags for a Triton I had back in 2010. My research found several instances of bent chassis where airbags had been fitted. All because the chassis was not engineered to have the stresses in the places affected. That scared me off air bags for life. EDIT: my research was specifically for towing a big off-road trailer and the instances of bent chassis I found were all where people were towing a heavy trailer. Apologies for not stating this in my original comment.

[peterj]

So interesting you say this. I tried airbags inside the coils on a Prado to help with heavy loads on a trip. My experience was exactly as you describe. The ride was terrible even with 0 - 5 psi in the bags. They lost all suppleness. Yet before I put them in it was impossible to find anyone who explained this. So I totally agree and I hope others watch this before paying for airbags thinking they can have their light load road and load carrying with airbags only to end up going with stronger rear springs afterwards anyway.

[donaldwatson]

Andrew you stated it correctly from the start. You are either under sprung or under shocked. If you have to add an airbag to any suspension system then you are outside of its parameters, time to reevaluate the vehicle or your needs. Thank you for sharing thiss much overlooked topic.

[juliangraziani]

Ive been fitting Terrain Tamer springs to 4 or 5 of my customers vehicles lately. Found their Leaves very comfortable and capable of much greater loads. Even when unloaded. Not used parabolic's.