Is Over The Garden Wall About Having Faith? | Idea Channel | PBS Digital Studios

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You guys REALLY like the Over the Garden Wall series on Cartoon Network (as indicated by all your comments and tweets). WE DO TOO!!! Wirt and Greg's journey to find their way home through The Unknown makes for not just a great show, but a great exploration into the idea of FAITH in the face of fear. The show and its two central characters seem to perfectly illustrate cynicism and optimism. So what can we learn from the brothers (as well as Beatrice and their frog) about faith and facing the impossible? Watch the episode and find out!!

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Comments

Kayla Haffley

shessomickey

Mara K

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I made a podcast!

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MUSIC:

"Dream Of Autumn" by Night Shift Master

"Dizor" by Outsider

"Lets go back to the rock" by Outsider

"Something like this" by Outsider

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Want some more Idea Channel?

How Mighty is Taylor Swift's Pen?

Your Questions Answered! Part II

What Does Too Many Cooks Say About the Meaning of Life?

Hell is Quoting Other People

[phoenixmesmer]

Yes! Finally, a topic I can talk extensively about!


Well, if you wonder of such, Wirt's experience in the 8th episode shows that all children who give up their hope and faith in these woods are turned into Edelwood Trees, which **SPOILER ALERT** results in their death, or maybe just the capture of their soul by THE BEAST. Can't be sure. Anyways, most of the situations that the characters encounter is when they either find Wirt in a situation where he feels there's no hope left for survival, or when Greg goes though what is thought to be a hopeless situation with a smile and a silly plan (and maybe a little song) for survival. And it's not like THE BEAST takes away their hope. They give up hope on their own. That is when THE BEAST claims them, and they cannot be retrieved afterwords. It can show that *once YOU give up hope, it is near impossible to get it back. It would take the presence of another, heck, even the ABSENCE of another, to retrieve your hope. And that hope, along with courage and your actions, can get you almost anywhere*.

[TheGamerFromMars]

I wouldn't go as far to say that Greg has faith, but rather that he's oblivious to the dangers around him. Throughout the show he's rarely shown with a frown on his face, and always continues on the journey oblivious to the life threatening situations they come across; this is where most of the comedy from his character comes from. To have faith you must first realize what you're putting that faith in, but Greg for most of the series just goes with the flow, not realizing what the dangers of moving forward are.

[ellygarcia]

I know this comment won't be read anymore, but I would just like to thank you, Mike, for being a person that discusses gender and representation problems with the knowledge that you're a privileged person talking about other people's problems, and you are still very much able to step down when people start criticizing women and minorities in general.
Thank you for being such good ally with your feet on the ground, it really means a whole lot for the minorities watching this.

[TheSHNGAM]

It is crazy how you made your point/observation about being accused of "making things up" at the end of the video, and then people make a shit-storm in the comments, proving your point. 

[DjangoLowe]

Ok.... let me stop you right there at 1:49.... Now I have to see this show! I have to see this first.

[spencergjerde]

While I found your ideas and points very interesting, I'd like to present an idea of my own about the series. The entire thing is an allusion to Dante's Inferno! I had to read the book for honors and there are a multitude of parallels between the two works! So I guess it's sort of about faith, as Dante is also related to that theme. Here are a few of the parallels I'm talking about: Dante is also often called the pilgrim by scholars and within the work. He (Dante) is guided through the afterlife by two people: a woman named Beatrice (who the Beatrice the bird was actually named after according to the writer of OTGW, to my knowledge) and a poet named Virgil, who keeps Dante uplifted and encourages him to keep moving through out the work (As Greg does for Wirt). Each episode represents another ring of hell presented in Dante. (example: the level of the greedy and the money grubbers corresponds with the number of Uncle Endecott's episode). OH! Also all of the rivers show up in the episodes that correspond to their location between the rings of Dante's Inferno too. I have some other notes on the subject, since I made it the focus of an essay I have been working on for my honors class. 

[brittanywidseth]

Also, thank you for taking the time at the end to share this observation you've made.It's great to see things like this addressed and brought to light, rather than be ignored and never acknowledged as a problem.
Just thank you for the work you do, and the unique perspective and knowledge you bring to each and every one of your videos.

[cynthiamckelvey]

I haven't seen Over the Garden Wall so I can't much comment on this video but I do want to say, Mike, thanks so much for that bit at the end talking about the type of comments that seem to come up in your videos that quote/focus on/otherwise acknowledge the existence of women and female experiences and perspectives. I think that the "you made that up!" reaction comes from many things. Mainly privilege blindness and this sort of "men as default" idea that a lot of feminists (myself included) talk about. Basically we live in a world where the male perspective and experience is the one we see in media the most. History mainly focuses on white men, white men run most of the media and are CEOs, etc. Most stories that we see in TV and movies are from the male perspective. I think that creates an environment where, when confronted with a female perspective that differs from their own, some men immediately reference it to their own experiences. If their experience and the female experience differ, then it's assumed that the female experience doesn't exist, is flawed, or is in some way inauthentic. So I appreciate you acknowledging that these comments seem to come up in these situations. Additionally, when you posed the question at the end of the Taylor Swift video, I appreciated you stepping back and giving women a chance to respond with their perspectives, understanding that we would have our own views. You didn't say it explicitly, but when you ended the video by saying that perhaps you weren't in the best position to comment, it seemed like you were giving a nod to the fact that women may "interact" with Taylor Swift's image in a different manner than you and other men do. So thanks for that.

[DontMockMySmock]

Re: your comments at the end:

I've always known the internet was a messed up place.  I've been surfing the tubes for over twenty years, and I've seen everything.  And that's always just sort of been how it Was, just a natural manifestation of what happens when you get a bunch of people, let them be anonymous, and then put into place systems that reward "virality" over "goodness", pushing the foul opinions of a fringe few into the forefront. 

The last couple of years, though, I've been getting more and more disgusted by the internet at large.  Many people's attitudes toward women in general and feminism specifically, and also gender and sexual minorities (LGBTetc), have become so toxic and vile that it goes beyond words.  If you so much as hint that women should be treated the same way as men, you'll get a barrage of hatred telling you that people who just want equality are somehow the villain, and yet at the same time they claim that we already have equality or, even worse, that the group in power (in this context, heterosexual men, generally speaking) are actually the oppressed minority.  No amount of pointing to wage statistics will convince them of the truth that's obvious to nearly everyone who isn't a straight guy (and to a lot of straight guys like me, too). 

I don't know what to do about this problem.  I've seen different communities deal with it in different ways.  Your tactic seems to be to carefully and intellectually argue from a position of facts and reality, and that's great in theory, but I know (and you probably do too) that it won't actually convince the vast majority of the anti-feminists.  They're convinced and they have a rationalization for everything; they're like a cult.  Other communities I've seen use the strategy of mercilessly mocking them for their stupid beliefs, and while that might be less desirable from a moral and intellectual perspective, it gets the job done a little better - no one wants to look stupid, and mockery can help make them reexamine their beliefs.  But it's still not a particularly effective strategy.  Others still ban people who exhibit this behavior, which at the very least helps make that particular community more pleasant, but then the anti-feminists confuse "not wanting to hang out with people that have vile opinions" with "censorship" and it fuels their persecution complex, which might do more harm in the long run. 

Long story short, it's a really messed up situation.  I still have hope that it can get better, but it's getting worse (just look at "gamergate") and will probably continue to get worse, at least for a little while.  I don't know if I really have a cohesive point at the end of this long rambly comment; I just felt like writing down my feelings on it.  I guess all I can say is, don't ever hesitate to stand up for what's right.  I don't know how to do that effectively, but we've gotta try.  So, Mike, keep on keepin' on.

[DJFlare]

Agreed. It is faith that helps the two get home. But here's the interesting bit:

SPOILERS

It's interesting to note that it's WIRT who saves the day at the end by choosing to have faith. Both in his own ability, and his brother's health. The beast tempts him by offering him a "definite answer", Wirt chooses not to take this "easy" way out, taking the "harder" route which involves him taking risk.

[AdaptiveReasoning]

I find it interesting that some men think they are authorities on what it's like to be a woman when they haven't taken that walk. I know empathy is a thing, but that usually isn't something I see employed in comments that simply brush off an issue that a minority or woman brings up. Empathetic comments tend to show some kind of consideration for others firstmost. 

I've seen this in race issues as well, especially lately, (y'all need to touch on Ferguson somehow). People who are not qualified making decisions or comments for or about other people, trying to wrangle the narrative in their favor without consideration. I think that these kinds of people think they are in a higher position or "better" than the people they presume to speak for, and that therefor gives them the "right" to say whatever they want like they are an authority when they have neither earned that right from the people nor suffered in any way to gain the appropriate perspective. 

[AlexPope]

Regarding the "you made it up" posts:

Here's an idea: feminism is scaring people. Somebody once said that you only get really mad at something that scares the bejesus out of you. It's a fight response. And people are so scared at what a feminist world may be that they're willing to fight fight fight anytime the issue comes up... or anytime they can bring it up, regardless.

It was similar to when Jackie Robinson broke the colour barrier in baseball. A lot of people were quite happy to let the "negroes" do their thing in another corner of the United States, but Jackie Robinson was now encroaching on something special... a field that was steeped in history and symbolism. Baseball was America, as much as anything was, so to allow Robinson into baseball was to truly, for a lot of people, allow Africans into America. And that symbolic act deeply frightened a lot of Americans who previously was letting the Civil Rights movement slide under their radar.

Perhaps that means that America will someday soon have its first female President.

[SmoggySandwich]

That spoiler-o-meter needs to become the officially used thing for warning about spoilers, especially with the Darth Vader

[SinisterSi]

I have apparently pulled a Henry David Thoreau for the past few months, because I have never heard of over the garden wall.

[PenneySounds]

I just want to say that nobody's accusing you guys personally of making it up. The problem is that feminism today seems to be based on manufactured controversy, and almost a moral imperative TO manufacture controversy and promote manufactured controversy. From Sarkeesian to Spider-Woman covers to this. You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop listening.

[naswalt]

Thank you, Mike for making your best efforts to respectfully approach the topic of faith without Christian bashing.  I think you did a wonderful job in considering what is likely a minority (at least from my first guess) of your audience. It normally is a kind of rough time of year to be of a Christian faith and have everyone think that the general Christmas season was a social construct of Christians, but you stand out as a glistening light of hope that we won't always be responded to in hate. It means the world to me :) of subject from this video, but I thought you should know that you touched my heart just with a little bit of sensitivity. Have yourself a merry Christmas! I can't wait for the next upload.

[Ikajo]

This is a very interesting subject also when put in the perspective of a person with faith. I've been a Christian all my life and been listening to sermons and discussions about faith plenty of times. One thing that always pops up now and then is the subject of doubt. There have been many times a preacher or a discussion partner have voiced the thought that you have to doubt to grow in your faith. For me this has always been somewhat odd and felt awkward at times. I've never felt any kind of doubt in my faith. Never.
The transition from childhood into adulthood have change my expression of faith but never the faith itself. It even grew stronger the older I got. There have been plenty of times where I've put my life in God's hands and simply asked for Him to do what's best for me. Whatever or not others believe any of it doesn't matter to me. I've always found in the end that even things that were heavy and painful at the time gave me something valuable I wouldn't have had otherwise.

The point I'm trying to make is to give focus to this notion that to win something you must first lose something. To get faith you must lose faith. To become an adult you most cut your ties with childhood. It's all boil down to the idea that achievement always comes with sacrifice. This seems to be true with Kirkkegard's ideas as well.
Of course, sometimes you have to make sacrifices but most people seem to never try and see what could be achieved if no sacrifice is made. That instead of cut the ties to childhood you accept your childhood. Instead of gaining faith by first losing it you gain faith by actually showing faith.
The last part is something that even in church and among Christians is seldom considered. The idea that faith has to be questioned is much, much stronger.

[Apointayon]

Over the Garden Wall is a cartoon reimagining of Dante's Inferno

[austingonzalez]

SPOILER HAND is super awesome and fantastic. Thank you for your effort in regards to spoilers.

[davidthefrank]

I have to disagree. *spoiler alert*

The Woodsman, because of his fear, puts his faith entirely in the idea that his daughter's soul is in the lantern. It is only through Wirt's cynicism that we realize this premise is "dumb" and not founded on physical evidence. Wirt's journey isn't to adopt Greg's happy-go-lucky attitude, but to accept him as a brother and accept himself as a person so he can get Sarah. 

Earthbound-wise you're spot on though.