Does the epistle of Jude say Jesus is God?

#maklelan2057

" Oh father why hast thou forsaken me " This well-known iconic phrase direct from the mouth of Jesus rather disproves the Jesus is God theory I think .

[dethspud]

Now I am imagining an angel with sticker on his robe that reads "Hello, my name is... DIVINE".

[cc]

No verse, no chapter ever say Jesus is God because he’s not. He’s a man that has heard the truth from God, hes a man anointed and appointed by God.

[dorarie]

Dan, apropos of nothing, I’d like to apologise for comments I made under a previous video of yours. I misunderstood your position and credentials, and came off like a troll. I’ve just subscribed and hope
to learn from your knowledge.

[kvpodmj]

That’s insane. I was literally reading through Jude this morning and was wondering about the meaning behind verse 5. The timing could not have been better lol

[zapatito_online]

Verse 5 ? What about verse 24 and 25 ✝️

[thescoobymike]

Apologists: the Angel of the Lord is Jesus

“Oh, so Jesus is an Angel?”

Apologist: no, of course not

“😐”

[Cornelius]

So the argument isn’t whether or not the early church thought Jesus was divine, but if they thought his divinity was unique (according to much later dogmatic developments like consubstantiality).

I was about to ask if there was data to suggest the Angel of the LORD was or wasn’t unique, but then I remember you wrote a book about it 😅 guess I need to get reading

[PatriotS]

The angel of the Lord is Gabriel. God, who is “I AM”, led the Israelites out of Egypt.

[beetlejuice]

Yu have to be one of few people that speak facts concerning Bible whether a believer or not

[theoutspokenhumanist]

Sorry to be a pedant but i think it is worth saying that, whichever meaning is accurate, it refers only to what the author believed, not to such belief being necessarily true.

[jamescampbell]

The issue is that the angel of the Lord itself is treated as though it is God in more than one place in the hebrew bible. Joshua chapter 5 judges chapter 6 in Exodus at the burning bush, etc. even if we say it's just an angel, it receives undo attention within texts like judges chapter 6.

When Jacob is blessing the children of Joseph he invokes in a prayer the desire that the angel who redeemed him from all harm should bless the lads. (asking God for an underling to provide blessing.)


These encounters cause a clear contradiction when compared to a text like Deuteronomy 4 that explicitly says God has no physical form, nor should you attribute such to him, nor worship the entire host of heaven, i.e. his entourage.

Authors like Dr. Benjamin Sommer have argued for a concept of divine fluidity in the ancient near east and in the Hebrew Bible where the divine can be localized in more than one place.

For the rabbis an angel is literally the embodiment of Gods will, i.e. if God wants to do something, he thinks a thing, an angel is created to do the task, and then it ceases to exist. an angel is like a megaphone that does not have its own essence or identity.

Whether the Christians are the ones that focus on this angelic figure, or you just take it as a figure from the Hebrew Bible, it's problematic from the standpoint of strict monotheism either way, and both Christian and Rabbinic tradition have had to grapple with the concept of the angel of the Lord as a problematic figure for monotheism.

[JopJio]

There are many Gods in the bible, but only one supreme God who is the father. The paulian church made him divine but stopped making him equal to "the God". The father is the supreme God. The jewish church had the lowest christology and believed Jesus to be a prophet.

[papa_son]

biblehub has it as the greek 'Iesous'

[-better-research]

Scoreeee! I was right all along for the past decade. I know, I know, this must be coincidental.

[RKling-ob]

The word we translate as angel means messenger. It isn't too weird to think of God, the being from outside the universe, speaking thru a burning bush or the figure of a man as a messenger.
It would be a stretch though to reduce Jesus to simply a messenger.

[BabyHoolighan]

It always come down to passwords and codes.

[MetroidTheorist]

What is meant by the messenger of YHWH having the name in him? I spoke of this with a trinitarian, and I initially understood the messenger as being entirely his own individual separate from YHWH, and not having some trinitarian understanding.

At the same time, it seems the messenger of YHWH isn't really anyone other than YHWH, and this distinction isn't literal. It's a sort of buffer, similarly to the way the Memra is understood in the targums.

[munbruk]

In Hebrews Jesus was called God but he also had a God. These are human writings so confusing and contradicting each other. Gods are men, men are Gods, angels are Gods, .. Good luck.

[nonomnismoriar]

Isn't the idea of the Angel of YHWH being given the Name (Exod.23) a contradiction with God obsessively saying he shares none of his glory, in the highest sense, with anyone else? How did the Jewish authors - even before the Hellenistic age, presumably, not see the huge problem that (allegedly) redacting the Angel into actual appareances of God in an older version, caused? Was this sharing of the name - presumably at a point in created time - not considered an act of idolatry and worthy of jealousy because God explicitly authorised it himself?