Did Windows Set The Standard?

Today I talk about why desktop design has stalled.

👇 PULL IT DOWN FOR THE GOOD STUFF 👇

===== Follow us 🐧🐧 ======

==== Special Thanks to Our Patrons! ====

#ramble #linux #thelinuxcast

[TheLinuxCast]

I apologize for the less than good audio. Also, I will get better at the ending and I will fix the typo.

[danporter]

Windows = driving on the right, Mac/gnome = driving on the left, tiling wm = helicopter pilot

[mikecondo]

I mean, no matter how you slice it - I think we're kind of stuck(for now).

The OS layout matters on the device, and the interface options that are available.

So a phone/tablet should look/behave one way, but a desktop/laptop should function differently. That's part of the reason why people hated Win8 so much, because it was trying to make you use your laptop/desktop like a tablet.

The devices we have for interfacing with a computer (Mouse/Keyboard) allow us to navigate the different menus, icons, etc. I think Microsoft just came up with the best layout they could for what they had at the time. I don't know that there will be another HUGE shakeup until we move to a more dedicated AR/VR workspace.

[folksurvival]

The reasons are actually the opposite from the keyboard thing; QWERTY was because of the function of typewriters and not because it was the most efficient layout (people just got used to it) but the Windows 95 style desktop layout was made because Microsoft supposedly spent a lot of money and did a lot of research to find out what was the most efficient and intuitive layout.

[namelessalias]

What happened to the angry birds poster?

[tero]

This design is older than windows 95. Windows changed it to this with win95 but the design, with a bar at the bottom; floating windows; icons; mouse pointer; ..., is a lot older. Iirc the first one who had it complete was Arthur on RiscOS in 1987. Other systems (Amiga Workbench, Apple) had the desktop similar to that even earlier, but something was always missing - be it the taskbar or other stuff. What windows did was to take the existing ideas and improved them, but the changes are not as big as one would imagine. The biggest difference is that windows is improving the design to this day (or not, depends what you like), while the others are out of business or design progress is slow.

[ChryptoCrystal]

that's probably why people dislike GNOME, because it doesn't blindly follow the Windows 95 design like every other Linux desktop environment does

[netsudro]

Growing up with Windows, their layout is the standard for me. My muscle memory just takes my cursor down to click on the taskbar to do stuff. I would say the windows layout is "grounded", it makes you feel safe, because no application gets to go full screen and take over. It's like the top bar on android, if it would be on the bottom it would be wierd, right? I also kind of like the Ubuntu idea to put the taskbar on the left side. I use a ultra-wide monitor, and it kind of makes sense. I think I will try that for a while.

[Aeroxima]

I changed to Dvorak ages ago, after learning the keys almost flashcard style it took me about 2-3 months of typing (painfully) slowly, and it picked up till I caught up. I can't say it's "faster", but it's certainly much more comfortable, and I found it VERY worth it. Shortcuts however are often based on positioning, like why is ctrl V paste? Because the position is convenient... on qwerty. I still never found a "solution" to that, but I still find it worth it. Also have to change controls in every game ever, but I would anyways, because I also use ESDF movement (gives you an extra row of available hotkeys, and you can start typing without changing hand position away and back, you're already on home row). Less looking at the keyboard.

Also as a Windows user, I experimented with different widows shells back in the day, and was curious about Linux to see how things might be done differently. Some people need it to be familiar (maybe most), but counter to what a lot of people think, doing things differently isn't the barrier of Linux. At least for me. It's not DIFFERENT design I have a problem with, I rather find it interesting. It's BAD design that bothers me, as somebody who does do a lot of UI customization both in the OS and in games, with custom macro scripts using autohotkey for various things (some global, some program specific).

To (not) answer the question, I'm curious too, but I'm not sure what else it would be that would be better. I certainly think there are other areas that could use help more, but it's interesting to think about, I just got nothin on that.

[alec]

Yea, I think so many people have used Windows that the layout is just second nature to them, myself included. I'm not a huge fan of Gnome's layout, I prefer something more windows like for the desktop GUI

[OldieBugger]

I would say Microsoft created the best UI in Windows XP and W 7. Everything else they put up has been a letdown.

[squinttt]

I think Windows just hit a sweet spot between usability and complexity in it's layout, in regards to mass appeal, and are stuck with something you can't really evolve all that much. I wouldn't say that's necessarily a bad thing for Linux though, they can keep their similar base design as Windows, whilst allowing each user to make their own tweaks. By the way this is coming from a long-time Windows user only just getting into Linux, so I might be ignorant of some factors.

[UnhingedNW]

It’s funny because my answer to your question was 100% going to bring up QWERTY layout and the fact that it is objectively worse, yet the norm.
I think a perfect TWM setup is the objectively best way to use a computer. I don’t always use them because they can be a pain to get frictionless.

Gnome is basically frictionless for me. Almost no extensions. Workspaces that work great for me oob. Overview mode that is one keypress away or one gesture if I have multiple floating windows on one workspace. And like TWM distraction free/minimal ui on the screen other than my apps.
(I use QWERTY)

[bonevelous]

I tend to think that Window's layout tends to be pretty intuitive; to the point that it wouldn't surprise me that part of the reason Windows 11 is doing so terrible is because it changes the flow up too much by centering everything including the start menu, kinda similar to how Windows 8 changed things up too much.

[Xaito]

I've used gnome for a while now and I've also used qtile for a while. If you're going with a desktop instead of tiling window setup, the windows-like bar is definitely my favorite layout. It really works for me.

[thedeemon]

> "the standard"

MacOS: am I a joke to you?

[insu_na]

I've always hated the task bar concept, and Apples Dock concept is even more stupid. I waste no screen real estate on my main screen with bars, only on my second monitor I have a pair of tiny polybars: one at the top and one at the bottom which tell me all the important info I need to know about my PC as well as my servers/cluster, as well as some other stuff like currently playing music, stock prices, weather etc.

[maxrobe]

Ford Model T - quite a populare car in it's time for many reasons. Pedal layout, left accelerator, middle reverse, right stop. Some interfaces are good enough for most people, then at some point some underlying engineering requires the interface to change. Moving a mouse and banging switches isn't going to change therefore the Windows interface is good enough.

[filtrakioldhorborn]

the mac paradigm for me is the best, haven''t used a mac in 15 years, yet my linux desktop has always been in that setup, however with major linux de's catering to windows users, i find that they are ignoring those of us who want something different, removing features one after the other with the main focus being to "windows-ify" linux de's.

[rightwingsafetysquad]

I think the fundamental design of Windows is superior to Posix systems. The Windows UI is not perfect, some Linux desktops do some things better, but it is probably the best if you have to take all of the system together.