Making Better RPG Classes - What Makes a Class Classic? - Extra Credits

Nothing is more iconic to fantasy roleplaying games than class systems. The warrior, the mage, the rogue. These archetypes make up a lot of what people envision when thinking about games like Dungeons and Dragons. So how can you make your own classes, regardless of what genre you're designing for?

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Now I want an RPG where you can choose from roles in a band. Drummer as a tank, guitarist is ranged damage, bassist can be support, and, of course, cowbell-wielding berserker.

[DietrichvonSachsen]

I approve of the Discworld reference of the disgruntled city guard holding a small dragon.

[javonyounger]

I saw a similar video by the architect of games about the holy trinity, where he discusses the upsides and downsides of the holy trinity of DPS, Tank, and Support. ANd how to avoid and shift the trinity.

[subtlewhatssubtle]

I like the 'dirty dozen' archetypes (and I don't mean the movie):

- Fast multi-hit melee fighter
- Balanced melee fighter
- Slow single-hit melee fighter
- Multiple projectile ranged fighter
- Rapid fire ranged fighter
- High accuracy ranged fighter
- Debuff offensive magic
- Controller offensive magic
- Damage offensive magic
- Healing defensive magic
- Negation defensive magic
- Buffing defensive magic

It's not a perfect system but it sets up enough variation to start building from or specialize further. And while I say 'magic' that by no means limits this archetype list to fantasy works. The role, not the source of power, is what these archetypes are built around.

[Ahrpigi]

I've found the tank/DPS/healer necessity is easily and best broken when classes have two roles, one that they're better at. Ie the tank does a reasonable amount of damage, the DPS has some control powers in their pocket, and so on. Each primary/secondary combination can be it's own class, too, leading to a lot of options and flavor. City of Heroes did this very well.

[mesektet]

Props to The Secret World. “Warrior” is basically anyone with a gun, “Cleric” is blood magic you heal by literally bleeding yourself. “Tank” can be just about anyone with melee and who has stacked up on high hp gear.

[Apfeljunge]

I think the artist really likes Discworld. I approve

[Gagneto]

Gloomhaven nails this, almost none of them are the generic go to and even the ones that resemble the "classics" can very wildly differ from that experience with level ups and depending on how you build them

[carloscaro]

When mentioning niche protection in VtM, I want to add rejecting niches and going without clans has its own niche. Namely, it's being the most expendable canon-fodder in a strictly hierarchical, very traditionalist and oppressive social circle. One night of being an abused Caitiff will get the whelps to rethink rejecting the clans. Social pressure becomes one of the most important ways niches are protected, and they are entirely in-game.

[ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo]

EC: *makes video on classes*
Marx and Engels: allow us to introduce ourselves

[luba]

I always love it when an rpg goes out of it's way to make their classes unique, i've recently been playing through 7th dragon 2020 (A psp classic styled jrpg) and it's sequel, and it feels great to pick up a class that seems so simple at the start like the psychic who seems like a regular mage, and then by the end game you are setting up counter attack spells and decoy shields, not just casting damage spells, or the Hacker who seems like a simple debuffer and ends up being able to force enemies to skip their turns and has ways to make the game's rng favor the party.

[NickdeVera]

vtm taught me that a weakness can be centrally defining and even cool, tells you how to use your powers to compensate

[MaskedNozza]

Excellent stuff. I miss these game design videos. Don't get me wrong, I love Extra Mythology and Extra History, but I miss having more of these kinds of videos :)
Wonderful design advice as always

[powerist]

2:52- Jack Vance’s Dying Earth had similar thing with spells being mathematics and using more than allotted can kill you.
This also influence DND magic system.

[SunDancerGE]

Disgruntled city guard.... VIMES! That's Vimes!

[RedFiercare]

Shout out to The Warriors reference :O

[kurichan]

So, the point of this sponsorship is to convince us to try a Ting or two?

[KnightsofGaming]

I never played a tabletop game (only exception is Magic the gathering), but this just makes me want to join in on the fun

[duke_hugo]

Always enjoyed the class system in Titan Quest. It was simple, you got 2 class and they combined into a combo class (eg Warfare + Rogue = Assasin). Made lots of combinations for builds that were still easy to understand and fun to experiment with.

[OurHeroXero]

Pugmire? Naw, this is Pun-mire, we got jokes here