Why Sweet Spot Training is Better Than Zone 2 for Cycling Performance

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[yvestrembleau]

"Why sweetspot training is superior to zone 2 training alone"
Obviously if you only do zone 2 you will have endurance but not much speed
If you only do sweet spot you will probably have more speed but have a harder time recovering.
Perhaps combining both zone 2 with sweetspot with some zone 4 and 5 VO2 intervals with adequate rest and recovery might even be better?

[Matt-Wolf]

This dichotomy between Zone 2 (Z2) vs Sweetspot (SS) is somewhat flawed, as the "zone 2 training" is defined based on lactate levels and is thus a physiological definition (See San Milan papers). The problem is that the physiological definition of Z2 is not the same as the Z2 based on FTP (55-75%). The top of Zone 2 based on lactate will probably coincide with Z3 in the FTP model. And with very fit athletes who are good at clearing lactate, they can probably even go higher on the FTP model, top of Z3. Therefore, comparing Z2 (<75% FTP) vs SS (90-105% FTP) only based on the FTP model is a flawed comparison.

[damonjones]

I find if I do v02max, threshold, and recovery days I enjoy the group rides because I have more power

[bmp]

Intuitively it does feel like Zone 3 and "Sweetspot" training are the best balance to get the most adaptations in the least time. Zone 2 at 60-70% always feels way too easy to make progress, but above 85% is too hard to get significant volume. I really don't understand why most experts claim Zone 3 is useless.

Then why do most experts say you need to avoid Zone 3 at all costs because it is nothing but "junk miles" and negates Zone 2 and Zone 5?
Does Zone 3 "Sweetspot" qualify as being part of the 80% moderate intensity in 80/20?

[christophs]

Very good explanations which convinced me to focus more on sweet Spot training. Looks like best way to maximize your training when you have limited time. Thanks!

[grantflewwelling]

I always hear ss is the best method for time crunched cyclist. How much time per week would you need to spend doing traditional base to exceed the progress of doing ss? Assuming at some point it could be better..

[jeremyleake]

I don’t understand this podcast. Who is recommending 100% Z2 for performance? Take a look at podcasts from San Milan, Dylan Johnson, Peter Attia, Stephen Seiler, GTN etc. They all talk about 80-20 where the 20 includes some very hard efforts. So you need to fix your podcast, which is set up as all Z2 v sweet spot. Amusingly you say in your response to another commenter that you don’t prescribe 100% sweet spot. The point is that the body adapts best to a mix of stimulus but the best research suggests doing most of your training relatively low intensity and the remainder very high intensity.

[sinan]

long slow distance is a must. why?
1. in zone 1 and z2 in 5 zone system, muscle stimulating metabolites arent secreted, so the work is mainly on cardiovascular system. capillarization, inc. stroke volume, mitochondrial adaptations and goes on.
2. ss training method stresses the muscle fibers much more than polarized method; resulting in higher levels of fatigue, reversing the benefits from work outs.

science says that, not me. try polarized training.

[davidsuper]

Hi great explanation. Wanna know if I am a ordinary person who wanna keep fit by cycling NOT a professional .is SP still the best recommendation

[Avianthro]

So, if we are using our perception of effort, feel, to try staying in the easy zone and occasionally make an unintended excursion into the "sweet spot" (medium sense of effort), that's just fine-n-dandy, right? If we are following the polarized strategy, that occasionally excursion into the "sweet spot" can be counted as part of our 80% easy, right?

[tannergray]

Help me make sense of this- if I’m time crunched and can’t ride every day, wouldn’t it be good to do more threshold and vo2 intervals since the subsequent days I won’t be able to ride and I’ll be “recovering”

[reflectionsdetail]

so can you train at 90-96% ftp The height of training effect, yet short of the Physio strain beginnings for a majority of your training . That would seem like the best bang for your buck?

[gravelcycling]

I completely understand the rationale behind SS training but I feel like it’s so hard to stick to riding outside where hills and wind sort of interfere with ego or the desire to sprint over a hill vs sticking to the SS zone. Also I have seen massive FTP improvement in 6 months (230 to 290) which every time I ride at SS level I feel like it’s too easy. I do focus on increasing CTL each week with a periodic test week about every 4-7 weeks.

[zacsborntorunrunningadvent]

Sweet spot will be higher than true max fat burn that will be zone2. 2 x a wk in sweetspot would be stronger aerobic but not stimulating fully the Anaerobic Metabolism/ lt2 Threshold.

That is if youre comparing a 1.7-1.9mmol z2.
With less hours yes it makes sense to do s.s.t.

[PerryScanlon]

Optimal training paces might depend on mass of type I muscle fibers compared to size of heart.

[katrinagwen]

With sweet spot, how is one supposed to do higher intensity training session (zones 5+) effectively if one is never fully recoverd from doing SS all the time? Do you just take a day off between last SS session and HIT?

[mebunzing]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was wondering if the approach now changes to more Polarized training in stead of Sweet Spot .? Some research (Stephen Seiler and others) seems to indicate towards polarized. Do you have new data to support one or the other model? Thanks

[trashaadthomas]

Are you training in watts and disregarding heart rate.

[mejdrichj]

Dr. O, does cadence matter? In Tempo versus SS, or is it simply hitting the power numbers?

[saijapz]

sweet spot for me is hard but i love it, i dont know why it is hard for me, i set my ftp correctly .