Non-duality 3. The Nonsense of Non-self

Some claim that the ultimate goal of spiritual growth is to have no self or attain a state of non-self. Not only is this impossible, but it is s denial of the very purpose of life, namely the transcendence of self.

This video addresses where the concept of non-self comes from and how it is deliberately designed to confuse people who are close to awakening from duality.

[WildSatsang]

“No Self” is not a concept. There simply isn’t one outside a bundle of imaginary concepts. What remains is awareness and its infinite modulations 💜🙏

[mikelisteral]

addiction is just an attempt to escape suffering

[Ilya_illich]

Thak you! You told me everything that I couldn't tell myself. I got confused in these advaita searches that denied the very essence of myself, and led me to conflict and even greater suffering than before the search began. It is very helpful and important explanation for me

[dr.donlevine]

Kim, thank you for the clarity you are bringing to this topic of nonduality. I have listened to some nondual teachers and they do not make any sense. The person walks away feeling more confused than they originally started off with a false dual sense of self. I am looking at different ideas for my research and I think you make more sense than I think.

[meditationamsterdam]

Thank you for such excellent content. This is probably the best I've heard out there and I've listened to a LOT.

[coenterhaar]

What is here when thinking stops?

This isn’t a question to answer with words. And it’s not a suggestion that thought is “bad” or that we should endeavor never to think. It’s an invitation to fall into wordless presence—the simplicity of what is, just as it is, right here and now.

Most humans are totally lost in thought, lost in delusion—and not even aware that this is the case. But gradually, over the course of many centuries, there seems to be a waking up happening. In one sense, waking up from the thought-generated trance of separation happens suddenly and instantaneously, but that doesn’t mean it lasts forever, or that someone owns it and is now “an awakened one, ” nor does it negate the gradual process in which the thought-stories are seen for what they are, again and again, gradually (in the light of awareness) losing their seductive power, their believability and their grip. There is, in my experience, no end to this process. It seems paradoxical, but only when we think about it: It’s an unending process that always and only ever happens NOW.

So when we find ourselves on a mental feeding frenzy, consuming too many words, thinking and thinking, trying to figure things out, seeking experiences or understandings, bashing one another or defending ourselves on social media, maybe that question will arise: What is here when thinking stops?

Even if we are in pain, physical or emotional, what is here when thinking stops?

And remember, this isn’t a question to answer. It’s a question to fall open into.

[RobbeyT]

Thank you! About the "I am" presence.. It is true as far as I'm concerned because when I totally clear the mind of all thought, all emotions and meditate on the "I am" presence, I get the most amazing feeling of love. To me that is conformation that this is the right path.

[Gandalfsson]

This is very interesting - high value teaching.

Thank You !

[Gettotrade]

The sense of the self is a mind construct. When the mind inactive, the "I" sense is gone. That's where the true self reveals

[brandonmcheyenehoward]

No separate self, not no the self .. the fad has caused the confusion. Your explanation is helpful

[phillipprestontrading]

Brilliant explanation. Clear, uncluttered ....to the point. Shame most people's perceptions of the world are SO Cluttered!

[justbemindful]

You are “aware” of this sense of self. Only awareness is present in all experience. I get what your saying. Take a a deeper look. Your sense of self is awareness arising as a thought that you are a”self”. It’s a huge difference between suffering and not suffering. I get what your saying but it’s just not true. Our true existence is awareness, always has been. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with what your saying either. Most people’s sense of self is behind their eyes. However, You are aware of this sense as well. Just look. It’s clear as day. With all love ❤️

[yoso]

It’s a wild and crazy ride. That’s about all that can really be said that perhaps holds some sort of validity

[arunagreen]

We do need a self as a child to individuate. I didnt get a strong sense of self cos of childhood trauma. The " i " people refer to when they say is just a word to descibe it to who they are talking to.
I think child development needs to be taken into account with thses teachings. Where psychology needs to come into it. Bhudda was frim a rich background. So were lots of other teachers.
I take on what helps me. I have had serious illness and non duality has helped me alot. But i still enjoy being " myself" and doing the thimgs i love.
Yep agree the confusion is from the western mindset.
We need to ultimately embrace love. That will be the guide to navigate the self. Yes its very nuanced. Very good video i love the explanation you have.

[KaaLee]

Buddha taught the no self.
But to realize it, is the highest teaching. Of course there is a self on the relative level, but in the absolute, the sense of a self drops away. But because of our strong habitual tendencies and emotions, we can not grasp this.
When the apparent ego drops away, it reveals itself.
This is what " my guru" taught.
One has to realize the empty nature of all phenomena first .Then through gradual progress and diligence one is introduced to no self and nonduality by the guru.
Lots of diligence and devotion is needed.

[Gieszkanne]

Anatta actually means "not self" which is remarkable different from "no self". Not self almost implies that there is a self.

[davidmickles]

The only way to speak about this is with concepts. Concepts are "dualistic" because they are objects appearing to a subject.

If you say "I have a self" this is a concept.
If you say "I have no self" this is also a concept.

Again, all concepts are dualistic.

Dualism means the world is divided into a vast multiplicity of individual and unrelated "things" and "beings."

But non-duality is really not opposed to multiplicity because multiplicity is a FACT of appearance.

By "FACT of appearance" I mean it is a reality that we have to deal with. We cannot deny the APPEARANCE of duality any more than we can deny that we ACTUALLY dream. The dream is just a dream yes, but when dreaming we are ACTUALLY dreaming.

There IS this appearance of duality within the reality of non-duality. The appearance is a "real" experience in the same way that a dream is really a dream. The contents of the dream are "just a dream" but we still have the actual experience of dreaming.

To say "I am a self" is like buying into the dream's contents. To say "I am not a self" is like saying "I'm not dreaming" while in the midst of a dream. In the end these are both mere concepts and concepts are dualistic.

Non duality is really just "wholism." Yes, these are all dualistic concepts but we have to start from that context.

Wholism is a bit different from "Oneness" or "no-self."

Wholism INCLUDES the dreams that are "no-self" AND "self."

This is why the teaching of "non-duality" emerges from the Vedas which are also the source of Yoga.

In Yoga (real Yoga) one discovers the unity (non-duality) of body & mind. This interconnection is "wholistic" because it acknowledges the body and its limitations while also acknowledging its relationship with the mind.

We are not just a "mind" or "self" trapped inside a body. We are a BEING or BEING-NESS which includes both the experience AND the experiencer.

This is the **experience** of non-duality. Wholistic BEING-NESS..the nonconceptual concept.
☺🙏

[ufomofo]

Ive gotten so much from Jim Newman's nonduality sharings. I am grateful for this video helping my mind the insight to loosen any attachment to the concept of no self...However, I am completely allergic to any stories being shared about other aspects of "spiritual growth". Jim helped me release any such stories and I have zero interest in building some kind of spiritual map.

[kenjones]

There's no sense and then there's nonsense. That said, I agree with the concept of Self in Vedanta.

[YamatoPower]

It's so funny. If someone declares "there's no self" meaning they play in duality by opposing to the "self" idea. Like "there's no gravity" yet they don't fly up. It's just an identity crisis.