Earliest Foreign Account of China? // 9th cent. 'Accounts of China and India' // Primary Source

This account gives us our first truly foreign perspective of life inside the Middle Kingdom - a place where the dead are fed until the living are bankrupt, and healthcare and education are subsidized by the state. Written in 851 and added to 50 years later by renowned Arab sailor Abu Zayd al-Sirafi.

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Thanks to:
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[alejandromedina]

His description of porcelain was excellent.

[daraghosullivan]

It’s striking how many elements of ancient Chinese society foreshadow what we consider modern practices.. Thanks for the insights.

[johnyricco]

The Tang Empire was a shadow of its former self by the 9th century. In the mid-8th century the Anlushan Rebellion had wiped out a third of the population and the dynasty nearly collapsed. It was one of the greatest calamities of Chinese history. I’m stunned the government and society still seem very well organized in this account,

[tat]

So basically, Tang China has a welfare system, a legal system based on writing, a public education system in urban areas, urban people in China probably could read and write, a sophisticated monetary system, modern centralised taxation and customs and contracts.

[dcs]

"they do not use turbans"
"Not many date palms"
I'll go on a limb and say this is a middle eastern person.

[xlyoutube]

“The Chinese treat each other fairly where financial dealings or debts were concerned." - Hearing this as a Chinese, I thought maybe we should bring back the wooden staves...

A note on the taxation (10:15) : the per capita tax on the male population is because a piece of land was assigned by the government to every man when he reaches adulthood - he was expected to farm the land and pay a fixed tax every year, along with a maximum of 30-day labour when summoned.

[abdlhmdx]

Just so everyone knows, those travellers made it necessary to include that the people of the Tang empire don’t wear turbans because during these arab’s path to the Tang empire they had gone into many societies and cultures with most having their own versions of a turban or garment that shields their heads from the sun.

So they had to mention how different a society was from their surroundings.

[Dragons_Armory]

The way the Tang bureaucracy catalogs all manner of things and form various policies is nothing short of extraordinary.
This level of management is quite robust even some 1300 years ago.

[Skibbityboo]

"They don't wipe with water after dedicating, but merely wipe with Chinese made paper without water."


I know I'm not the only one who felt that sting.

[katutaistelija]

I find your lack of turbans disturbing

[robertmiles]

"The ruler never sits in judgement until he has eaten and drunk, lest he judge wrongfully." I cannot in words describe how important this is. You should never make a decision on an empty stomach.

[Berkana]

14:02 their method of authenticating the two parties to a contract is rather brilliant. Writing over the seam where the two contract documents folded over each other meet, especially in Chinese written with a brush, is a great way to hinder attempts at forging either half. If either half doesn't match up, it is immediately apparent.

[tedhodge]

This is an excellent review without a lot of the mystical embellishments that seemed normal for the period, lol. I actually feel like this is an accurate period review of China.
No people with dog heads or maneaters that worship the moon. I am impressed with the writer's objectivity and sense.

[Berkana]

15:45 basically, Tang dynasty China had a form of Social Security, but instead of getting a pension from the age of 60 or 65 or whatever it is nowadays, one qualifies to get paid when one reaches 80. Pretty impressive for a classical civilization. Also, this implies that there were some folks among them who reached the age of 80, which is way longer than what I had heard the typical life span was in pre-modern times.

[دَرْكْ-عق]

2:09 The Arabs used to describe the non Abrahamic religions, or Pagan Idolatries – as Magi or Magus, they have described some pagan European religions like that, when they conquest Spain, and when some travelers traveled to East Europe. It does not necessarily mean Zoroastrianism.

[krabbcake]

9:22 im glad they acknowledged being hangry as a legitimate issue

[crazywilly]

It's remarkable that things like giving poor people the medicine they need or feeding kids in public school were apparently non-issues in 9th century China but are points of controversy in the modern USA. I wonder if there were people like that at this point in China as well, but they weren't prominent enough for this scholar to hear about them.

[unifieddynasty]

"They don't wear turbans."


[[ABSOLUTELY HARAM]]

[MadHatter]

I'd say that throughout most of human history, the most sophisticated and comprehensive bureaucratic systems on earth generally belonged to the Chinese. This report provides very clear and honest insight into that system, by mentioning the wide-ranging educational, economic, and healthcare systems. I'm a little disappointed he didn't mention the civil service examination for government employees, but perhaps that wasn't quite so developed in the Tang as it would later become in the Song Dynasty about 200 years later.

[horisontial]

A good way to encourage correct spelling! ".. So if there is an error, he is beaten with wooden staves"