Totalitarianism and Religious Dogma #samharris #jordanpeterson #atheism #atheist #atheistviews

Welcome to the Pangburn Universe, governed by the laws of good faith & helpfulness.

[thomasmills]

" it isn't clear to me" should be the title of Petersons biography

[patbrumph]

wether one is evil and immoral as a atheist or a religious person is irrelevant. If one is evil, it doesn't matter what their supposed ideology is. Evil is evil.

[daniel-panek]

The people saying Harris didn't answer the question, you're kinda wrong. He's on his way to answer in this short. I'll agree he didn't complete it in this clip yet. He said it right there: Peterson's premise is false. Nazis were religious, referencing god over and over and over again. It's like saying "this one atheist group and this other theistic group were as pernicious to religious dogma". Peterson is still claiming that Nazis were atheist last I heard while claiming to "read a lot about the Nazis", yet he doesn't know one really basic fact about them.

[nickacelvn]

I used to hold Sam in high regard. Then the pandemic hit. Now i realize even the most educated people can be mislead and thus wrong.

[sordidknifeparty]

The thing those political systems that Jordan mentioned have in common with religious systems is unquestioning obedience to some sort of authority under penalty of suffering. A truly secular Nation or political system encourages all of its edicts, methods, and punishments to be questioned. When certain communist countries have eliminated or outlaw the existence of religions within their communities, they have only replaced those religions with themselves in the place of God, demanding unquestioning obedience to their precepts in the exact same way the religions they destroyed did. A secular society does not do this

[jonathansmiddy]

Joseph Stalin was a baptized believer that went to Gori Religious School and Tbilisi Spiritual Seminary.

[TyTalks]

People need to stop debating this type of shit. It is all a symptom of being human. Put whatever label you want on it. People ARE this way regardless of the label.

[terryfranks]

Because Hiltler had the support ( supposedly) of the Catholic Church in Rome doesn’t make him a believer of any stripe !

[voodoochild]

They all tell you, you can't question the 'boss'

[justythrasher]

None of them, the vatican included, follow Jesus.

[VarnoSlimm]

This is supposed to be the educated people that you should listen to. But Sam is wrong about Hitler, go and read up on his life, he became an atheist later in his life, he would even criticise Christianity as being a weak religion.

[stuff]

when you get out classed just word salid.

[anythingforabuck]

I love listening to dr Jordan Peterson, i always feel like ive gained some knowledge, i can't listening to Sam Harris for the opposite reason.

[joecali]

Sam Harris never properly defends his positions. I I don't buy his opinions.

[johnyoung]

Harris: "I can't think on stage, so let me answer a question I heard years ago, instead."

[peterlombard]

Sam misrepresents both religion and Hitler, all without answering the challenge put tp him, (in this short clip anyway). Though raised a Catholic, Hitler never invoked Catholic dogma to justify his view. Also the idea that dogma is somehow inherently bad is a strange concept, seemingly only ever assumed but never proven. Dogma represnets shared views and tenets of a belief system that have official recognition. For something like the CC by way of an example, there is apostasy. However, there was no such route in Societ Rissua or under Nazism. Therein lies the difference.

As for atheism being responsible for the atrocities of the 20th century, it would seem only fair to apply the same reasoning to it as to religious belief. For any claim to be considered valid, it must be able to withstand logical scrutiny. This applies not merely to the central premise but to any corollaries that ensue from it. If someone is acting out of the view that there is no real and true objective moral code by which actions can be judged, then it follows that behaviours are the conseuqence of a self-justying belief, i.e. atheism. Unless Sam is able to provide a model for morality that does not reduce to fallacious appeals to force or number, not only is atheism illogical, it is fangerous and culpable too.

[pauljasmine]

Sam Harris doesn't make a good argument that atheism is the better alternative. The better examples are Russia and China.

[gmrad]

Love how Jordan cowardly did not bring forward the argument of atheism being the reason of 20th century atrocities and Sam had to bring it up lol
Also I have to be honest here and as an atheist and a person much more on the left (in European sense and not American) than I’d like to admit, the point Sam makes about nazi and fascism absolutely stands, in Italy we have laws that Mussolini made to accommodate the Vatican and are still in place. But on the communist side of the point tbh it’s a stretch. We can cherrypick info about how Stalin was a believer in his childhood or how the structure of the state reflected religious structures and so on, but atheism is the core of communist ideology, that’s the reality. What we could try to argue, given that I think we should just endure this fact and better ourselves thanks to it, is that neither ussr nor China and much less any country in South America were pure examples of communist countries because communism is a utopian (or dystopian depending on your ideas) ideology that can’t be accomplished.
So therefore they call themselves communist but are just using a name and a label for their political growth.

[mitchellrussell]

Sam Harris. Right. Jordan Peterson. Wrong.

[JohnDelong-qmiv]

All things are permissible if there is no god