A Wesleyan-Apocalyptic Analysis of the Provisionist P.R.O.V.I.D.E. (@Soteriology101)

Well, this one has been requested for a long time. I discuss my thoughts on the Provisionist P.R.O.V.I.D.E. and offer criticisms and affirmations from a Wesleyan-Baptist and Apocalyptic perspective. Hopefully it is of value to y'all, Reformed, Provisionist, Arminian, and beyond.

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[roddyk]

Nick... let me start off by saying, for the benefit of any people reading these comments, I love Dr Flowers and Drew and Eric over at The Provisionist Perspective and like you what I'm about to say is in no way a pot-shot or anything at any of them. That being said it just feels like, to me, that "Provisionism" is just a 'not-very-well thought out' solution to the problem of needing something that's not "Calvinism" and not "Arminianism" and so someone thought up a new label for something else to make another division in order to battle Calvinism and it just seems a little rag-tag. Then there's the acrostic... P.R.O.V.I.D.E.. I'm not sure who came up with this but it's just bad... There's no need for an acrostic, I'm sorry, it hurts me to have to say this because I love all the Provisionists... I just think the acrostic pointblank was a bad idea and not executed very well..

I've just stopped calling myself anything beyond a "Christian"... I grew up a Free Will Baptist... but I try to do everything I can to learn and understand the perspectives of Calvinists and Baptists and Anglicans and Catholics and Orthodox and Open Theists etc etc so I can put on all those filters and read scriptures then test the filter itself to see if it hold water scriptural or not and then allowing for mystery and variation where it's appropriate.

Sorry, Provisionists, no offense... no hard feeling... I agree with most of provisionism... I just don't think it's very well thought out and I don't think it provides (no pun intended) anything but a lateral move out of Calvinism and not a step up from it like it should...

Great examination Nick...

[theidolbabblerthedailydose]

I really like the suggestion to change the “R” from “Responsible“ to “Revelation.”

[scottthong]

Taking a cue from Tim Stratton's Mere Molinism, I like to use the term Plain Provisionism (the Sunday School Gospel).

Provisionism just strikes me as an ‘-ism’ presentation of the plain old, Sunday school Gospel. The Gospel presentation we use in street evangelism. The Gospel that the simple, everyday, common folk hold and understand.

We’ve all sinned. God loves you. Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins. He was raised to life again so that you can share in eternal life. Repent, believe this message, and be saved! This is the Gospel – hear it, understand it, take it or leave it. It’s your choice and your responsibility.

No hidden caveats about God’s Secret Will and decrees. No underlying convolutedness from unfreely free Compatibilism. No unspoken assumptions about Total Inability and Elect or Reprobate. No doublespeak or ungenuine invitations as with General Call vs Effectual Call.

If the Bible says you can believe its words, it means it (John 20:31). If God says He’s waiting for you to respond, you really can (Hebrews 3:15). You’re invited, and you really can come (John 3:15-16). What you see is what you honest-to-goodness get.

It’s the simple, childlike faith, fishermen’s Gospel. It’s been called Traditionalism. It’s retro.

It’s Plain Provisionism.

[breannawilliamson]

I’m a provisionist who used to be Wesleyan. Enjoying this.

[Richard_Rz]

Good show Nick 👍 I always learn something.

[TheOtherCaleb]

My main problem with provisionism per se is that it, as a soteriological standpoint, has never been systematically explained throughout any point of church history, unlike the vast majority of other views.

[scottthong]

There's some good tips for better clarity here. The acrostic is best viewed as a soteriological statement and not a statement of general faith.

[kurtressler]

The wording is wide allowing for other beliefs like Molinism, Annihilation, giving up or losing salvation, etc.

It is a wide tent allowing for different beliefs in other areas. It follows the broadness of the Southern Baptist Faith and Message.

I believe the E has been changed to eternal life because as you stated it eliminated those who hold one can give up/loose their salvation.

[kurtressler]

Provisionism was created against Calvinism and then showing how it differs from other soteriological approach like Arminianism and Lutheranism.

You are correct it's only focus is soteriological and not other doctrines.

[zpatrick]

great video/ analysis. Would be interesting to have you and either Dr Flowers @Soteriology101 and/or Drew/Eric @ProvisionistPerspective to discuss/flesh out topics of Soteriology, Christology and Sanctification and the various nuanced views so the viewers can understand similarities / differences better. I think you are all calm people so would be easy to watch but educational. Being interactive would be more beneficial than "response" videos.

[iandacosta]

As far as I'm aware, provisionism tries to be something of a broad tent, so it's not going to take a stance on things like annihalationism. Likewise, it's probably trying to avoid specifying exact atonement mechanisms. It's focus seems to be:

1. God's appeal
a. God is first mover by giving a provision and knowledge to take it (whether general or special)
b. The appeal is an influence, not a determination
2. Vicarious atonement
a. A sacrifice at God's expense
b. It's for all individuals
c. It's effective for only those who accept it
3. Eternal security
a. For those who have truly accepted the atonement, the atonement will remain effective.

I don't know anyone who takes the label provisionist in my limited social sphere, but I'd probably not take it because of the vicarious atonement and eternal security emphases. I believe in those phrases in a sense, but in practice the baptist/non-denominational folks have very specific understandings of what those mean (along with other assumptions such as being born with a sin nature, etc).

[jobrown]

I am sure that Leighton has said on quite a few occasions that the PROVIDE acronym is lacking in some areas. He will probably be very interesting in hearing your thoughts.

[jordantevans]

4/5. Would be 5/5 if you were smoking a cigar during the video.