Everything you Need to Know, Catalina - Episode 108 - Lady K Sailing

Join Lady K as we talk about Catalina Yachts and the history fron Frank Butler to present day including what to look for in a Catalina, Catalina problem spots, and cruising sailboats in general.
Photo Credit:

[jessekrawiec]

Nice video but I have a couple of issues.

First, the Catalina smile is only on pre-1989 boats. It's caused by the rotting of hardwood that was used to stiffen the keel stub. The top of the bolts weren't sealed so bilge water could get to it. So as the wood rots it compresses and the opening develops. That is the Catalina smile.

The repair you discussed, that you did on Lady K is maintenance and cosmetic. Keels are held to the boat by the bolts and bonding compound (typically 5200). Structurally nothing more needs to be done. But to make them smooth and more efficient in the water (and prettier) the surface area of the hull to keel joint is faired with typically a thickened epoxy with a couple of layers of glass (Catalinas actually use vinylester because it resists osmosis blisters). Through periodic hauling of the boat or from hard groundings it will start to crack. Like you said the epoxy and glass repair is longer and stronger and how I typically choose to address this maintenance item.

Lastly, engine hours. I fundamentally disagree that "high" hours on a diesel engine is a bad thing. Low engine hours typically means the engine was used for 5-15 minutes to get on and off the mooring or dock. This is actually the worst thing for diesels because most done run it at full throttle once warmed up and then allow it to cool down before shutting it off. This causes far more issues than anything else. If you want to treat your engine and get years out of it, warm it up for 5-10 minutes, when you are moving run at full throttle for a minute or so and then allow it to cool down at idle for 10-15 minutes. For Catalina (most marine diesels actually) are based on the Kubota tractor engine block that has been used in millions of Bobcats, Skid Steers, tractors, pumps, generators etc. Go to a construction site and watch for the day. The first thing they do is turn on all the machines and let them idle (warm up) and then they run all day (typically through lunch). At the end of the day they idle them for another 20-30 minutes (cool down) before shutting them off for the night. I have personally seen some of these engines go over 250, 000 hours without rebuilds and that was in the Northeast where they would run in.weather from sub zero to over100°F. So having 2, 000-4, 000 hours on a 20 year old diesel is not an issue. But how it was treated and maintained for those years is the issue.

We moved to the Caribbean in 2015 and I began working on boats full-time then. I work on a lot of charter boats. For these the generators see the most use and almost never shut down (guests need to have their air conditioning). They also are maintained poorly. Even then most are still getting 15, 000 hours. The engines are getting 5, 000 hours with again some of the worst maintenance you will ever see. Captains in the Caribbean are often new, not experienced and don't get paid well enough to car about the maintenance. I caught one captain throwing away brand new oil filters. He said the owner counts the number of filters he buys and has on the boat to make sure he was doing the maintenance. But instead of changing the oil he was throwing out brand new filters in the box and a 4 quart bottle of oil (2 of each actually because it was a catamaran). He was on that boat for 3 years and the engines had 4, 500 hours. The only time I know the oil got changed was the once a year service I did before it headed to Grenada when I changed the motor oil and filter, fuel filters, impeller, often rebuilt the water pump, saildrive oil and gave it a once over for any other issues.

My point is diesel engines die because of poor use practices and poor maintenance, not engine hours. If I was looking at a boat and the engine had 5, 000 hours but the previous owner had great maintenance records, I would not hesitate to buy the boat if everything else look and performed well at a sea trial and survey.

Fair winds

[micahgerdis]

Frank Butler unfortunately died Nov. 15th 2020... Hopefully the company is in good hands to continue his great legacy.

[locutus]

For years now I've been looking into smallish older blue water pocket cruisers such as Pearson Triton 28, Alberg 30, Bristol 27, Cape Dory 30, etc., thinking that if I start with one of those the cruising possibilities would be endless. (I can almost hear the wind in the palm trees of Tahiti calling to me, LOL.) But these boats are hard to find on the West Coast, and the ones I did see seemed pretty cramped and un-livable longer term. In reality, my cruising grounds will probably always be limited to the Pacific Northwest, British Columbia and possibly Southeast Alaska. Phenomenal cruising grounds to be sure, but the Admiral is unlikely to consent to an ocean crossing to the South Pacific Islands. (Nothing happens without the blessing of the Admiral, after all.)

To ease myself into the sport, on a budget, I've tried several small boats, starting with a home-built Glen-L 21CB I bought, with trailer, for $100. Had a great week in the San Juans with this ultra cheap boat. Sold after one season.

I then built a little Stevenson Skipjack for way too much money and time (It took 2 1/2 years). Beautiful little boat but it sailed like crap so I sold it for a 40% loss in material costs.

My first experience with Catalina was a 1977 C22 swing keel. Fixed it up a bit and bought a new mainsail. Again, had a blast in the San Juans and other areas of Puget Sound, and this was a much better experience than with the cramped little Glen-L 21CB. The C22 seemed, at the time, to hit the sweet spot for solo sailing the San Juans and Puget sound. And as a trailer sailor, bonus of no slip fees.


After selling the C22, I made the mistake of thinking too big. I bought a 1974 Nicholson 34. No doubt this was an incredibly tough and seaworthy blue water boat, and had in fact sailed on her own keel to the PNW all the way from England, via Panama. But it turned out to be a bit much for me as a single-hander, and was rigged to be sailed by a crew of at least two. Moorage cost was an issue too, so I got a slip in Kitsap County that was cheaper but inconvenient. So I decided it had to go. Sold it within 6 months of purchase.

Back to home-built little wooden boats: In January of 2022 I bought a 15 FT Glen-L Minuet needing restoration. I haven't sailed her yet as of Dec. 2022 but it's nearing completion. The whole bottom was rotted out, including the centerboard trunk, so that was pretty major restoration work. Fun project though. Looking forward to launch soon.

Meanwhile while the restoration was ongoing, I bought a Catalina 25 on a trailer. This may really be the sweet spot for single handed solo cruising. I can keep it at home in the off season and cruise it in the Summer, avoiding slip fees most of the year. Cozy but comfortable interior, good seaworthiness numbers on Sailboatdata.com. Doesn't need much, maybe new batteries and a bit of rewiring. Haven't launch it yet, as I've been focused on the Minuet restoration.

But now, after watching this video and others about the Catalina 30, I'm having second thoughts about the C25. Only 5 FT longer, the C30 seems to be more than twice the boat with an extremely well laid out interior for its size, and seems like it could be comfortably lived in long term. Cost of ownership would be significantly higher than the C25 though, since it would have to be kept in a slip. And around here, that's about $400 to $500 per month depending on the city and marina. I'm sure the Admiral would enjoy the C30 much more, but I balk at the slip fees when I have a perfectly good C25 that won't need a slip. As a working stiff on a budget, for me slip fees are a major consideration. So, I dunno. Both boats are perfectly adequate for the local waters of Puget Sound, San Juans and British Columbia.

[peer]

Owning a Catalina 25 swing from 1980.
I will grow old with her. Love her. She is in perfect shape.
Love her till death.

[cdr-sailor]

The January 2021 issue of _Sailing_ magazine brought news that Frank Butler died on November 15 at age 92.

[clarkkent]

We purchased a 2005 Hunter 41DS. My neighbor purchased a 2006 Catalina 42. Storage on my Hunter was twice that of his Catalina because there is no storage behind the cabinets as they are mounted all the way out to the hull. With the rake of the hull the only garbage can under the galley sink that would fit was a small two gallon can. On our Hunter we had a 15 gallon can. I agreed that you can “Modify” your Catalina to get some storage but with the Hunter you don’t have to. 😎

[stevepolson]

We own a 2006 42 that we've sailed down the Pacific coast from Canada to Mexico so they are certainly capable
cruisers.
Many have traversed oceans with Hawaii and the south Pacific popular destinations. The high freeboard makes for a relatively dry ride in all but the worst conditions. But sure, if my goal was Cape Horn or the Indian Ocean I

would choose a different boat.

Where it counts, Catalina went the extra mile. The hull is solid glass below the waterline and cored above with a
modern glass ladder frame to add stiffness. The
separatefor added rigidity in the stern. The hull shape itself is a nice trade-off between comfort and performance.


It's not perfect as the interior storage isn't all it could be and there are no real sea berths. But it's very
comfortable at anchor and considering this is where you spend 90% of your time it seems like a reasonable trade-off. In terms of value for $$$ you'd be hard pressed to find better.

[michaeldenicola]

Great review of Catalina sail boats. I have sailed on a lot of Catalina's 30, 320 a 380 and the 42. The one i like the best is the 42, the 320 and then the 380. The newer boats are not in my price range, but are still very nice boats. Thank you for sharing and safe sailing.

[ThomasColeFZ]

Excellent video Tim. I really enjoy this style of video especially the ones with historical insight. Please keep up the good work.

[peteroneill]

Many thanks for all your great reviews. U r the man. I’m pretty new to sailing but your insight is invaluable. Again, many thanks. Please keep doing you are doing. Cheers mate.

[MrNewcast]

Until a year and a half ago I had a 1982 C25 and absolutely loved it. Sailed lake Huron and trailered to Cape Coral, Fl. in the winter to sail the keys. Was very easy to sail and just have fun with. Now have Beneteau 321 in Florida but some days (usually all summer) back here in Michigan I miss my C25. Very interesting video. Keep them coming. P.S. The factory is near Tampa Florida and tours are given. It is worth it just to see how these boats are built.

[jackscott]

Love the new segment your doing keep it up !!!

[tomd.]

When I started boat shopping, I looked at a Catalina that was supposedly refit from stem to stern. Unfortunately, some people don't know what "refit" means and it turned out to be a piece of junk. So, I bought a 41 year old Gulf Star 37. S/V Celtic Star

[markpoinelli]

Great Video. Was wondering were you've been. Recently been going back through your Bahama's trip. Damn you did a great Job. Keep it going!!

[Catalina]

The smile is usually attributed to improper blocking of the keel when on the hard, the bottom of the keel is at a slight angle and this must be accounted for when blocking and setting the stands. Just what I’ve found and not the only factor, just one that can cause separation even though there is no rooted wood involved.

[normanplotkin]

When I toured the Florida factory a few years ago they told us that their biggest competition is their old boats! I sail a 1998 Catalina 28mii . It is a very nice small pocket cruiser with all the amenities of a larger cruiser (walk through transom, hot and cold water, nice galley, transom shower, etc..).

[cgrovespsyd]

Our first boat was a new Catalina 350, which we loved and wouldn’t have traded it but we got an offer on a new Catalina 445 that we couldn’t refuse. We have bare boat chartered numerous 42-44 foot Beneteaus and Jeanneaus and the 445 (which we really love!) is far superior. We are still going strong after 13 years and it is set up for extensive off the grid anchoring out. It has handled a number of unexpected storms in Lake Michigan (8 foot waves and 3-5 second wave periods) with aplomb. Having said that, I wouldn’t recommend doing so, especially as we, including our dogs, didn’t especially enjoy it. In addition, our son has a 1984 Catalina 27 which is still an excellent boat and super fun to sail. And the below deck area is surprisingly big and well laid out.

[jasonmcintosh]

I love these boat info videos. Great job! I also love your theme song. Great tune. Where did you get it?

[svmagnolia]

Great video with good information and history. I've owned both Catalinas and Hunters (Cat 22 and Cat 30, Hunter 23, 28.5, and currently a 410), and can't say too much negatively about any of them. They are all decent boats for their purpose and price point, although my '86 Cat 30 was relatively slow and backed like a pig. Like you, I really like the Catalina 42 and came very close to buying one.
On a different note, I saw a Canadian-flagged cruiser in the anchorage next to my marina at Solomons- have the Covid-related border restrictions been eased for cruising boats?

[aquaholic]

Great video and history on Catalina. I own and LOVE my 1995 270 designed by Douglas, who just retired last November. Sadly Frank Butler has passed away. As you mentioned, I appreciate the fact you can call Catalina and get a live person to speak and ask any questions. I’ve owned. Any sailboats in my life, but this one is by far the best I’ve ever owned.