The Queer History of The Lord of the Rings

Was Tolkien a big gay? Were Sam and Frodo lovers? Was everyone in The Lord of the Rings transgender?! There is no way of knowing. Except to watch this video.
No cats were harmed in the making of this video. Miško just wants to be included in the fun, he loves to be centre of attention!

Video by Verity Ritchie. Script editor: Ada Černoša

[Tbrekke]

"But what about second divorce?" "I don't think he knows about second divorce, Pippin."

[kaylaanderson]

I love your interpretations of LOTR so, so much. I met Sean Astin two weeks ago at a Comic Con, and my friend had him sign a painting of Frodo reading next to a tree. She asked him to put write a message on the tree that said "Sam loves Frodo, " and while he did, he smiled and said, "It's true you know." Then at the Q&A, he was talking about how he loves that the queer community has latched on the relationship and there's nothing that says they didn't kiss each other more intimately. Sean Astin is the nicest human, and we need a billion more people like him in this world.

[jenniewomack]

When I was ten I was reading and said "Mom what does 'queer' mean?" "uhhhh read me the odd, yeah it just means odd." Then later I said queer in front of my dad and he was like "who taught you that word?" "The Hobbit" "it's an old fashioned word, it doesn't mean that anymore. Don't use it, you'll get teased." Oh to be an innocent bookish child in 1993.

[sapphicdreamer]

I always thought the way males were portrayed in their relationships to each other was just a reflection of the normal interactions between male friends of the time. It seems (and ( could be wrong) that its only been in the last century that (the Western world at least) have made masculinity very toxic. The LOTR always felt like seeing good, positive examples of masculinity. Hugging, holding hands or expressing love for your friends doesn't have to be inherently romantic or sexual, except to the Western mindset, apparently.

[quagsiremcgee]

If I may speak honestly. LOTR is one of my favorite books partially because it doesn't talk about sex very much. It's more comfortable for me to read stories that don't bring it up that much.

[Weird_One_]

I do really appreciate the lack of romance in these books as an aroace person. So many fantasy books now have a giant focus on romance and sex, and it can be hard a lot of the time to find them without. Having this book be largely about platonic relationships is just really nice to me when they are almost always pushed to the side in the favor of romance in every other piece of media.

[missanthropy]

In defense of Eowyn and Faramir as a couple, and in defense of Eowyn’s story arc, I think you may have discounted Tolkein’s perspective in writing her and Faramir. I am someone who as a cis woman absolutely idolizes Eowyn and I have since I was a very young child. To me, her character never read as woman who wanted to be a warrior, but someone who wanted the freedom to do things that would make a difference and protect her loved ones. It’s not that she dislikes what is expected of her as a woman, it’s that in this time of crisis and war, she wants to ride out with her brother and uncle and protect the country and people she loves so dearly. I read her crush on Aragorn as not real love, but first as a desire to be like him and then as appreciation because he values and validates her bravery and desire to fight. In her life, hes the only person who thinks she’s capable of it and that endears him to her.

Faramir is a scholar who deeply loves learning and a peaceful life. But with war looming, he was expected to be the perfect warrior archetype like his brother. So he puts aside his desires and dedicated himself to becoming that. Despite not being a natural warrior, Faramir still takes great pride in serving to protect his people and does so without complaint. Even if it wasn’t expected of him, I still think he would have chosen to do so anyway. When asked which character is the most like himself, Tolkien always said Faramir. Like Faramir, Tolkien is a scholar and bookworm with passion for peace, nature, and learning. But as a young man, he left his studies to fight in a horrendous war. When that war ended, he put down his proverbial sword and resumed as a scholar, as did Faramir.

I think Eowyn finding her true happiness by also putting down her sword and becoming a healer is meant to mirror The characters with each other. It also has a parallel with many women of the time that served as military medics and nurses returning from war and resuming their lives and finding husbands. Some went on to continue in a medical profession, others not but they did not go back to war because that was never what joining up was about for them. When Eowyn and Faramir get together and become healers, it’s because it’s what they want to do in a world now free of war, they have the freedom to do so. Middle Earth doesn’t need warriors to serve and protect it anymore. It needs scholars and healers to help it recover from war. Tolkien wrote an ending for her that he himself desired idealized beyond all else for himself and he thought she was the soulmate of the character he identifies most with. I really love this ending for her because I live in a world where cataclysmic climate change and dozens of systems of brutal oppression threaten the life and freedom of myself and everyone else. In the year 2024 I find myself marching and protesting for rights my grandmother had. It’s not with a sword, but I fight as an activist against the proverbial hoards of orcs actively destroying my country. I cannot imagine a happier future than one where I don’t have to fight anymore and I can live in peace with my partner and not have to worry about climate change or my right to autonomy or my country’s military committing more war crimes or our prisons acting as slave labor camps or billions of animals being needlessly slaughtered every year. The fact that Eowyn’s character is rewarded with such peace and happiness in the end shows an Tolkein’s admiration and respect for her bravery and demand for freedom of choice in her life.

[nikaanuk]

If Ian McKellen says it's gay, then it's gay.

[emmy]

An interesting fact to note about the Andrew Lang books is that he was primarily the editor.

Leonora Blanche Alleyne, his wife, did most of the work. Lang himself writes in a preface: “The fairy books have been almost wholly the work of Mrs Lang, who has translated and adapted them from the French, German, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, Catalan and other languages.”

She and a team of other writers, mostly women, did the translations and wrote the adaptations.

[Manueelaa]

As a cis straight woman, I've always loved Lord of the Rings because there's so much gentle masculinity and platonic love, and also because even though the women are just side characters, they're all really cool (Eowyn, Arwen, Galadriel).

[Wolfmania]

fun fact: there is a 13th century old french version of the 'girl who pretended to be a boy' narrative (Yde et Olive)
funner fact: they end up with a son called Croissant

[prphawke]

I love when video essays suddenly become good pieces of investigative journalism

[the_aberration]

Shout out to Leonora Blanche Lang, Andrew Lang’s wife, for actually doing most of the work compiling “his” Fairy Books. (Along with a team of other women.)

[karelfinn]

Here's my take on Eowyn. Eowyn is a badass feminist hero who proves everybody (including Gandalf) wrong about what women can and should be expected to do. Eowyn is also desperately depressed and trying to die at the end of a sword just so that she can feel like she's done something worthwhile. Two things can be true. Her relationship with Faramir is not about Faramir, a man, convincing Eowyn, a woman, to know her place; it is about Faramir, a pacifist, convincing Eowyn, a warrior, that the war is over and she should find peace with that instead of continuing to chase death. It works for me. Faramir is pretty much the only guy in the book who really gets what's going on, so it feels true to his character.

[rhicrtr]

One thing I would add to the bit about the intimacy of WW1 soldiers, the world wars were the first time a LOT of people found out they weren't the only gay people on earth, which was a big catalyst for the queer liberation movement that followed. Sometimes two boys in the trench who love each other IS gay

[excruciatingsleep]

"Soup: the food that is juice" is now my favorite phrase, thank you.

[colinneagle]

I must be on the internet too much, because when you started talking about food in the middle of the video, I assumed it was a segue to a sponsorship from HelloFresh

[ianthompson]

I liked learning about the Violet Fairy Book. I think Eowyn also kills the Witch King because Tolkien didn't enjoy how some of the prophecy works out in MacBeth. He liked the idea of a woman killing the one no man born of a woman can kill better than using a c-section as a work around for the term born. He also has the ents move the forest to Isengard to get the orcs rather than having guys in disguise like when Birnam Wood come to Dunsinane. Tolkien never said the Eowyn part straight out, but he did say MacBeth made him want to “devise a setting in which the trees might really march to war.” and he is on record being very critical of Shakespeare throughout his life.

[raylightbown]

I am 77 and avidly read fairy stories as a young boy, including Andrew Lang's books. As with the Grimm brothers, these were oral traditions from several centuries earlier. Indeed. Tolkien, like many English Lit adcademics taught Beowulf and Norse folk tales. Well done on delving the connections, which I had overlooked when I first read LOTR. As a queer old fart (though not Catholic or any other religious persuasion) I have seen love between men (or between women) as fraternal, idealistic or heroic, in addition to being romantic or erotic. I often say "Love is love is love - and comes in many forms and varieties". Excellent video, my dear.

[yakubduncan]

One of the things that drives me crazy about the polygon article is that we actually know how 1950s novelists wrote about queerness. Giovanni's room was published in the same decade; The City and the Pillar was published in 1948; the Pied Piper of Lovers was published in 1935; The Western Shore in 1925 and Death in Venice in 1912.

I... don't get the same vibes from LoTR