Do Calories Matter in Ketosis: Insulin vs Thermodynamics (With Dr. Anderson)

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Is a calorie a calorie? It's something that I've talked about before. It's something that a lot of people ask me, and there's one particular question that comes to mind that I want to address in this video.

But before I get to that question, I want to introduce a good friend of mine, Joe Anderson, who's a PhD in Chemical Engineering and has also published over 40 peer-reviewed articles in the world of pulmonary science. He is an expert in ketosis, and also an expert in how we measure ketones. I think you're a good person to really talk to about the world of calories.

Sure. Yeah, I'd like to.

The question that I want to bring to mind is that of, "Is a calorie a calorie?" And what someone brought up to me was if someone were to increase their calories but be on a ketogenic diet, would they still lose as much weight as someone that was just on a calorie-restrictive diet.

In other words, if you're eating the right kind of foods, can you get away with eating more calories? Does calories-in versus calories-out really matter? I want to turn it to you, just briefly just kind of big picture on this on what your take is on that. Then I've got some ideas that I want to bounce off you too.

Yeah that's great. I think kind of the short of it is, calories-in, calories-out do matter. But the nuance piece is it depends on what calories you're putting in. Right? If you put in calories like sugar, and you have less sugar calories than you're burning, then that deficit, so the difference between how much you're bringing in, and how much you need, is gonna be subsidized by your stored body fat. Right?

The problem with that is how long can you do that for? It may be for a month. It may be for a couple of months, but you're eventually gonna burn out. That's why those calorie-restriction diets are very difficult. So what you really want to do is have good calories coming in, and I know a lot of people will go on a diet, and the first thing people will say is eat healthy foods, and a lot times the reason that works is you're cutting out all those processed junk foods.

So once again, the type of calories is important. If you can get rid of foods that cause your body to have dysfunction, and it may be hormonal dysfunction, it may be processing dysfunction, and replace those with good calories, that's a step in the right direction.

Then the second piece along with that, once again the nuance piece, is if you're on a high fat, low sugar diet. One of the nice pieces with that is it allows you to regulate how much you want to bring in. Right? It satiates your appetite, so you may not overeat with a high fat, very low sugar diet. That's gonna once again, kind of balance out your calories-in, calories-out.

Actually it's funny you say that. I just did a video yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind about CCK, cholecystokinin and how ketosis affects that. I don't want to go into a lot of detail on that but basically, CCK is a hormone that is released especially when you're in ketosis that does cause you to be satiated.

So a calorie is not always a calorie, but one thing that I want to really address in this, and we were talking about this before the video and what actually spawned this video to begin with, was the fact of truly finding where your baseline caloric needs are is extremely, extremely difficult.

So to be able to say that you need to be in a calorie deficit, although that's true because simple thermodynamics do apply. You do need to yes, technically be consuming less calories in order to lose weight. We don't really know what less calories is, and it can change from day to day because we have so many different external influencing factors.

We have things like insulin that will definitely influence other hormones. We have cortisol. We have testosterone. We have estrogen. We have our moods. We have heat. We have cool. We can't ever determine exactly where we are calorically, where we need to be.

Right it's an average measurement, and it's measured like you said, it's probably varying every day. It depends on the conditions, so when you do one of those measurements it's a measurement that's taken over about 30 minutes in a resting position in a bed. But like you said, how does that change hour by hour, minute by minute is somewhat unknown.

So there is an individualized piece of that that's certainly gonna change. The other piece that I want to go back to is this calories-in, calories-out and the specific types of calories. You also have to remember to add to that list is you have different types of fat. Right, you have the white adipose tissue or the brown adipose tissue. The use of fat in the brown adipose tissue can be separate from energy generation meaning it's not creating energy for your body to use, it's just creating heat.

[peterfaber]

Making things simple:
1) The amount of calories you burn per hour varies depending on activity level AND insulin levels.
2) Elevated insulin levels block fat burning
3) Sugar and carbs in general elevate insulin levels for up to 3 hours.
4) Eating 6 times a day doesn't work because insulin levels stay elevated all day long.
5) Without access to bodyfat, the only option left for the body is to lower metabolic rate.

If I understand it correctly, the body has 2 types of insulin responses. The first is eating, doesn't matter what you eat. Initially there is an insulin response that lasts about 10 to 15 minutes. I guess it's to give your body a head start for when glucose start to enter the blood stream.

If no glucose comes in, no more aditional insulin is produced. The second fase of insulin production is regulated by the actual glucose levels.

Insulin is such a powerfull hormone but few people understand its relationship with food and weight control.

Losing weight is the wrong term. It should be called regulating insulin. Once you understand that, you'll be much more conscience about what you eat.

[jonrykert]

This guy helped me lose 90lbs 302 now 212 thank you!

[alphacause]

The way I like to put it is that caloric deficit is the ultimate end game, but low carb/ketosis is the means - the best means - by which to reach that end game. As someone who has lost 95 lbs, going from an obese 230 lb man, at 5'6" tall, to 135 lbs, I can tell you it would have been next to impossible to sustain the caloric deficit required, for as long as I needed to lose the 95 lbs, without using the low carb approach. I used to try cutting calories, without paying attention to my macronutrient ratios, and while I would lose 30 to 50 lbs, my weight would rebound because I could not sustain the hunger, or endure the feelings of lethargy and weakness I felt. Finally, when I rebounded to 230 lbs, I knew I had to give the low carb approach a strict attempt. So I cut my calories to the same amount that I did on all my previous failed attempts at dieting, but this time I paid close attention to keep my carbs low, my protein moderate, and my fat high, and lo and behold I was able to lose the 95 lbs without severe hunger pain, or feelings of lethargy or weakness, despite being at the same calorie deficit as I was before when I would restrict calories using a high carb diet.

[creyes]

I wouldn’t really worry too much about overeating on keto at first. Eventually you start having to count calories to make sure you eat enough. That hunger only happens at first because your body doesn’t know how to use fats properly and it’s just dumping out ketones. Once you adjust you sometimes end up accidentally skipping a meal here and there. That’s probably why IF is so popular with ketoers. If you overeat one day, just skip a meal the next day.

[suprslowmotion]

In short, I feel this video can be summed up with: "Hi, I'm Tom, you know me, here is my Doctor friend. Eat good calories, not bad ones, cuz calories in calories out, but kind of depends, but yeah calories, but variance and insulin. See you next time."

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like people are looking for a precise, definitive, answer on the whole "calories in, calories out" and this video did not deliver that. If it depends on factors, tell us precisely what those factors are. Then explain the best approach and explain *exactly* why.

In the initial statement the doctor more or less says that calories are the same but healthy foods are better for you in the long term because of other factors and does touch on some of these factors. Then Thomas chimes in with "a calorie is not always a calorie"... dude, a calorie is always a calorie, and the Dr. just told you that.

Then you go on to talk about variance in BMR. Nothing really definitive said here other than... it varies. Okay cool, so caloric needs vary based on a bunch of factors that we may or may not be aware of. Sweet. Good talk. Moving on.

Moving on to brown vs. white fat. So what we learned here is that brown fat is burned to generate heat, and then the Dr. literally asks "How does that affect your basal metabolic rate?" Well I don't know Doctor, I was hoping you would tell me... should I go take ice baths to try and burn up my brown fat? No really, what value can I take from this other than I now know I have an unknown amount of brown fat that may be utilized to generate heat when my body is cold... okay...

Then the doctor backtracks, "going back to it, calories in, calories out, it really depends on what the calories are." I feel at this point in the video I must have missed something, how did we come to this conclusion? By talking about how brown fat is burned to generate body heat? Was there an edited segment here, wtf is going on, lol.

Then we reach the end of the video where we are reminded that MCT is good, and sugar spikes insulin and once again guys... everything varies, there is so much variance, variance everywhere.

[shnabz]

Thanks again Thomas! It’s really cool to see other experts in your videos to collaborate on these topics

[MannyQuacioua]

Just completed a 83 hour water fast! (only was supposed to be 72) felt like crap the second day but pulled thru!! Was done on Saturday night at 11PM but continued! Thanks to you Thomas DeLauer I’m now into intermittent fasting! I praise you for your amazing content and sharing knowledge with us! You’re the man brother and I’m
A PROUD SUBSCRIBER! Can listen to these videos all day!

[SiimLand]

Eat 1000 calories of broccoli or 1000 calories of sugar and see what happens

[maxroman]

Well, this didn't tell me anything; it was not specific enough to be useful

[greeneyes]

What?!?!I learn more from the comments. So 100 calories of cheese is better than 100 calories of chocolate ?

[drivingdrivingschool]

If you are going to bring in a PhD expert, then him talk more.

[SioLazer]

It's not unusual for me to watch your videos a few times so I can make sure I understand them. This was unusual... I think I finally figured out the purpose of this video after several views. And it's an interesting coincidence when I finally boil it down because I've been trying to figure out how it ended so badly for me on carbs, before I switched to keto. I may have been on the road to ruining my metabolism deficiting constantly simply to maintain my weight. I will tell you right now, I eat more and maintain my weight on keto than I did in a glycolitic state while working out more.

[RedOkamiDev]

Lost 15 lbs with ketosis and intermediate fasting in 11 days.. Thank you for this informative videos Thomas!!

[mrsleslievolk]

Thanks for another great video. My question is if you’re into fitness and doing Keto to lose body fat and get leaner, do you recommend having someone set your macros for you and track them daily? Thanks!

[godscountry]

Hey Thomas . . . I’ve been enjoying your great content. I would like to see a video on how best to approach a keto diet and build muscle.
I’ve been on the diet for three weeks and lost 10#. Probably could’ve been more but while I’ve been disciplined on the macro ratios I haven’t bothered as much to keep under my calculated calories for weight loss.
Anyway, my goal is to get rid of as much “bad weight” as I can and then put on as much muscle as I’m able. I’d like to do this all while enjoying the benefits of ketosis. Is it all just a matter of maintaining macro ratios while keeping a positive nitrogen balance?

[coreymcdonald]

Hi Thomas! I’ve been a big follower of you over the last few months. I’ve been on a weight loss journey over the last year, and Keto with intermittent fasting has been a big success so far. Could you possibly do a video about going in and out of Ketosis using some other diet as a temporary break? I’m very curious about the right way to approach a new diet for about a month and what to expect. Also, is acne a big issue with Keto? Thanks for any input, and please continue being a huge inspiration to so many of us!

[jbfitness]

Another great video by Thomas, and re-appearance of Dr.Anderson! My take from this is that calories do matter, but you could make it hormonally easier to lose weight with ketosis vs calorie restriction

[joniisnutrisious]

Hey Thomas! Fantastic video as always. Could you shed some light on fasting and Human Growth Hormone, especially from a bodybuilding perspective? Should I work out during the HGH spiked attained from intermittent fasting, or does it really matter? Looking forward to hearing from you, keep up the good work! :)

[KatharineLikesCake]

Thanks for another great video! I always appreciate the information you put out there!

Any thoughts on why homocysteine might go up on keto? If inflammation is going down, why would my homocysteine go up? Would you consider doing a video on keto and methylation/homocysteine? I'd watch it!! Thanks again :)

[anastasiaperkowski]

Hi Thomas, your videos are truly an inspiration. I am new to IF, and am looking for information regarding how much I can eat (how many calories or another measurement)during my non-fasting period. Is there a guide for different body types for this? I know these exist for normal eating habits, but wasn't sure how different this would be for IF. Thanks!