TF2 - Thoughts on the Loch-n-Load

The Loch-n-Load. Is it a crutch? Is it trash? Is it OP?
In this video we discuss the pros and cons of the weapon, some tips and discuss how viable it is as a substitute for the stock Grenade Launcher.

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[mrcolz]

Has anyone every noticed that the achievements in TF2 seem impossible when looking at them, but as you play and forget they exist, you start getting 20 of them per second?

[SydneySininen]

What I like about the LnL is that, since it's pipes travel faster, they also travel farther. It's shots are helpful in trying to hit a far away target where other pipes wouldn't. But at that point, you should probably just avoid the sightline that sniper you're challenging controls lol

[eddymcchucklenuggets]

I just want them to change the whole "3 shots, 2 barrels" concept. It has purturbed me since the change

[Jokke]

You are a really underrated youtuber, I found you when i searched for sentry spots

[Chodor]

I'm kinda late to the party but:
- pipes explode on impact


Done, it's diffrent from other grenade launchers and works like a weird rocket launcher buffing the weapon but not so much


or you could increase explosion radius and damage done to buildings - extra 20 does shit


or you could increase overall damage by I don't know 15-20%? Nowadays It wouldn't one shot light classes but could help you 2 shot soldiers with banners and demoknights


I think that the most fun idea is:
- 50% clip size
+ 30% explosion radius
+ 20% damage
+ 20% damage to buildings (144 damage in total per pipe)
+ 25% projectile speed
+/- Grenades explode on impact


This way each pipe pack a punch but you HAVE to hit them because of small clip size

[Solanacia]

I was so sad when I saw this nerf
I used to actually like using Loch n Load, it was like the demo's direct hit. Now it's just a ranged homewrecker.

[Kapin]

Fun fact: the Loch 'n' Load, despite being designed to counter sentries, is _objectively worse_ at it.
Sure, it does more damage and does so at an easier angle but overall one clip does only 380 damage, where the stock could deal 400.
Keep in mind the Rescue Ranger heals 75 damage at the same speed and in the end a level three sentry would survive with 126 health while with the stock it would only have 106.

Feel free to correct my maths if I screwed up, I didn't really factor in timing differences with the lower clip size.

[MurdocNiccolas]

I suggest giving it back 10% extra damage, remove in pill, and give it an increased reload time, try to make it have a higher dps then stock, so if you hit all shots you do more damage
Another idea is increased reload speed for each shot hit, with a cap at 4, so every time you hit you get 25% faster reload, until you can reload 100% faster. You'd lose 25% reload speed for each miss. That way you would get rewarded for playing well with it

[thisbox]

0:52 *People thinking it's a clutch.*

[tahlas]

Can you do a video on "A day with the Loch-n-Load"? I really liked those c:

[StickMaster]

They could make it so it can deal 15-20% damage bonus again and/or make it mini-crit targets launched airborne but give it back the 50% less clip size and greatly reduce the explosion radius from -25% to -50% or -70% to match the Direct Hit but I’m not sure if those changes will make it too good like it previously was.

[cerocero]

There are some common misconceptions with this weapon:
First, it's not designed to counter sentries, the advantages of the weapon vs stock in this regard are circunstancial, the reason it has bonus damage is so that it's actually capable of dealing with sentries despite it's downsides.

Also, It barely makes aiming a little bit easier, and that assuming little experience with pipes, however it's significantly harder to deal with (dodge or reflect...). This means that this stat gives an actual increase in power: no matter how good you are with pipes, once the projectile leaves the gun anything can happen, a perfectly aimed shot that fails with stock may have hit if it was the loch-n-load. This is the soul of the weapon ''need to kill fast and pipes too slow''.

However, this isn't even close to compensate the huge downsides of the weapon, it clearly needs rebalancing, and as for the decreased explosion radius, i just can't understand why it's there, i think it would literally make more sense if you invert it, so that there is a reward for going for direct hits.

There are obvious reasons to compare this to the direct hit, however a straight damage bonus in a grenade launcher is just a bad idea, demoman=/=soldier. Over 100 damage without ramp off is nasty stuff, and rewards spam (imagine a semiautomatic huntsman).

Here are some ideas, for the sake of discussion:

-Increased knockback Pros: a skilled demo may now juggle and dominate his opponent, sacrificing area denial, damage potential and 'artillery support' for an outstanding DM capabilities, which gives the weapon an interesting rol. CONS: may be frustrating to play against.

-Combo weapon: only two grenades, faster switch speed and head scalation. PROS: again, gives the weapon a new role, to pick off enemies debilitated by sticky spam or use as a demomix. CONS: perhaps some people may miss using it as main weapon?

- Allow the projectile to bounce once, bonus damage but less radius based on distance bounced. PROS: adds power, creates a possibility for flashy/skillful shots, demo mains dream of direct hits after a bounce (meet the demoman, why?). CONS: favours spam, cheap kills, doesn't address the main problem of the weapon, threads into loose cannon territory.

[Veratig]

If you use this as training wheels it will be hard to use stock or iron bomber, so I like stock, not the loch and load

[Keilink]

"It's not that good"
* Completely ravages enemies on footage * xD

It looks interesting to me, since I find it more rewarding to hit a target than spamming and hope something connects. However I'm learning the stock pipe launcher atm and i'm scared to f*ck up all the progress I've made so far.

[AvianZebra]

If im up against a good amount of engis, i usually equip the loch n load because being able to 2-shot level 3 sentries from longer range is a big help. Also in comparison to the Direct Hit, the loch n load can actually splash the engi whereas the direct hit cant, so even if the direct hit has the extra shot, i find the loch n load better for sentry busting.

[cheryl]

I love using loch n load and sticky jumper since you can 2 shot sentries, you can just suicide into sentry nests and completely disorientate engineers. Not practical but fun af

[mbloodbath]

I was thinking something along the lines of "more direct hits = more damage" so maybe draw from literally every single MOBA ever made, and do a "consectutive direct hits on the same targets deal 20% more damage per hit, in a 3 second period, up to a maximum of 3 hits for an extra 60% damage"

probably a better way to word that but the gist stands

[someguyonyoutube]

I think it's cool for training your aim in hitting pipes, since it directly punishes you for missing with it's smaller clip and the fact you cant rely on anymore cheeky roller kills. What I DONT like about it is the faster projectile speed. It can be useful, but as a demoman who REALLY likes the Iron Bomber, it completely fucks up my subconscious aiming.

[breadstevens]

10:08 - 18 hours later Smiree at i63 pulled it out in a clutch last hold against Ora Elektro and won them the round. Great vid as always. I always look forward to the end of the video where what I call the "bonus" video. We got 2 this time :)

[snpn]

They should make it made for direct hits, so not projectile speed, but its just more of a sniper grenade launcher