Dynamic vs Condenser Microphones

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Table of Contents:
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0:00 - The Debate
3:22 - Sound Tests
5:51 - Sound Analysis
8:08 - Recommendations

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#microphone #dynamic #condensermicrophone

[niignastii]

My dynamic mic picks up the fish tank upstairs.

[djstudios]

I think the concept behind condensers for untreated spaces not being good is because they are more prone to pick up reflections from walls, specially high pitch reflections (which condenser are better than dynamics at) muddying up the sound, and not about the noise floor itself

[SoundSpeeds]

You're missing a couple things. While gain at the preamp does matter related to sensitivity and background noise, most modern preamps are low enough noise to fall below environmental levels especially in untreated spaces but here's the big one... frequency pickup. Dynamic microphones pick up less of a frequency range than condensers. A dynamic may have a frequency pickup of 50-15K Hz while the condenser version may pickup 20-20K. Where are mostly of those rumbles and sounds that people roll off? Below 80 Hz so the headroom changes. Elevated noise levels below vocal frequencies push the level up so of you roll them off (or use a microphone that can't pick them up like a dynamic) then you'll be able to gain up more without bringing up undesirable sounds (AKA noise). Untreated spaces reverberate and enhance that frequency range so when you roll then off, they are reduced thus sounding better to your ear due to less reverb. Polar pattern does help and if you roll off a Shure Beta 87A condenser to match that of a Shure Beta 57A dynamic then yeah, you'd look at background noise in the quietest of environments to see which is less noisy because they would be a match in the things you actually hear - frequency pickup and off axis rejection (due to polar pattern). You covered the difference in pressure operated dynamic mics and pressure gradient condensers very well (along with gain/noise) but you have to look at other defining characteristics between the two mics like frequency pickup too. It all matters.

In your mic comparisons you only cared about background noise with no voice input. If comparing background noise, the condenser would pick up more frequencies and therefore potential noises unless you are in a quiet environment when it's a game of background noise which you do say after your recommendations at the end of the video. Podcaster don't just bring in microphones and record quiet though. If they did then your conclusion would be correct but you're not comparing the sound quality of the signal with both mics, you're comparing background noise only. That invalidates your entire testing because you're not comparing the quality of sound in the signal you care about, your comparing background noise which can be specturally erased leaving you with only signal which may have environmentally enhanced frequencies causing a less natural or acceptable sound. As you know, listening is key.

[sobhhi]

Also, another reason behind “dynamics for untreated spaces” is that polar patterns are not fixed, they are frequency dependent. So while any two microphones may exhibit a tight response at 1khz, it’s common for condensers to actually drift towards an omni directional pickup pattern as you go down lower to lower octaves.

This can add to the perception of noisiness

[mickeytylerofficial]

Hey! I am really glad I came across this channel!
You are the reason I decided to get into home recording! You helped me record my first single at a youth centre 11 years ago and there has been no turning back, so thank you a ton!!
On the microphone topic. I agree 100%!
I have gone through trial and error on many microphones, and I have found that there are only a small few essentials in a studio setting recording live instruments.
1 - a dynamic (I use a classic SM-57 for many percussive and small stringed instruments)
2 - a condenser with high output for less gain.( mostly for vocals, though I find pairing it with the 57 is great for a "room mic" while recording acoustic guitar and re-amping)
3- ribbon mic (love how it can sound paired with other mics on guitar cabinets.)

4 drum mic kit.

In a world of digital instruments, it feels so amazing to get a beautiful raw sound with microphones.
Subscribed, hope all has been well randy!

[theoutsiderjess]

As someone who lives in New York after owning a condenser mic It took 3 years for me to ever think of ever buying another condenser microphone because of how much noise it picked up

[favourite]

sure, a mic picks up room sound, whether if its a condenser or dynamic mic, but no one is recording silence. people record e.g. vocals. and a condenser sounds weird if you record your vocals from very close distance, a dynamic mic not. and the further away you record your vocals, the more room noise will blend in. thats the reason why a dynamic is better than a condenser in untreated rooms. i have a shure sm7b and a neumann tlm102 and would always choose the shure in an untreated room.

[RockG.o.d]

If you have a good interface, then gain noise shouldn’t really be an issue with any mic.

[diversekcox]

This is the video I NEEDED to watch. Thank you so much! I currently have a $300 mic and want to upgrade to a $800-$1000 range. My dream mic is the Lauten Eden but before I reach the dream I need something in the middle. I’m considering a 2nd condenser before I get my dream tube. Mainly because of repairing/maintenance of tubes and how it’s not easily fixable in my current location

[thatsrich]

One problem with this comparison is the dynamic microphones are way too far from your mouth. With proper placement of 2-4 inches from the source, their gain can be significantly reduced, eliminating most if not all of the background noise. This is where dynamic microphones shine and why they are used on live stages with multiple "hot mics" to prevent feedback and signal bleed. The preamp gain is set as low as possible to achieve a clean sound and then amplified later in the chain.

[indianajim]

You had it right about live sound engineers and rejection the first time. 😂. There is a reason why we use dynamics on stage rather than condensers, even if it requires significant gain (like an SM57, the basis for the SM7B), because condensers, using phantom power, pick up a lot more noise. We still have to consider pickup pattern, angles of axis and reflections, but the noise rejection is key. You can have a totally quiet room, but untreated, a condenser will pick up all your reflections, whereas a dynamic microphone picks it up less.

[kenchilton]

A third factor is microphone self-noise. A condenser microphone has higher sensitivity, but it also has higher self-noise. If the sensitivity gain is higher than the self-noise, then the condenser will have less noise than the dynamic microphone because the SNR starts off higher. Dynamic microphones have near zero self-noise, but pre-amps have a lot of noise. Adding 10dB of gain in the pre-amp also adds 10dB to the referred input noise of the preamp (usually). So, the situation is more complicated than generalizing without looking as specific microphones. Add in proximity, dynamic range, and artifacts, and it gets even more complicated. If one compares a well respected dynamic microphone like the EV RE-20 to the Lauten LS-208, the Lauten condenser is made specifically to meet all the other requirements that an RE-20 satisfies, and excels with 135db of SPL handling and has a wider frequency response, but the sensitivity is only 5mV/Pa compared to the RE-20 1.5mV/Pa. That extra sensitivity comes at a cost of a 15dBA self noise. So, 10dB of extra gain is needed for the RE-20, but any high quality preamp will not add anywhere near 15dB of input referred noise to add 10dB of gain. I like the RE-20 for what it does, and the Lauten for everything else, but one is not gangbusters noisier than the other.

[soramittenpaw]

Actually preamp SNR is best when the preamp gain is set to max. What you need to look at is the sum of the noise from mic and preamp.

I believe the main difference between moving-coil dynamic mics (ribbon dynamic mics perform differently) and condenser mics is their transient response and acoustic damping. Heavier weight = slower response = potentially more damping happening at the frequencies prone to room noise perceived by human ears?

Also, I believe A-weighted levels may be more appropriate in determining how perceived noise level would be to human ears.

I think the reason why people recommend moving-coil dynamic mics for acoustically untreated space is for their design to be used in a closer proximity to the sound source (lower sensitivity overall + lower sensitivity in low frequencies to compensate for the proximity effect). The low sensitivity design forces people to place the mic closer to their mouth (even though some people place their SM7Bs so far away from their mouth 🤦‍♂) to get better SNR based on the inverse-square law.

[topicruben]

Great video man. I needed this!!! Happy to be a part of your gang

[djeondj]

I just saw that too!i currently purchased a condenser mic (starting a podcast!) and noticed a lot of “pre-amps” sold as “frequently purchased together”to clean up the sound.

[YashvardhanPrasad]

Hey. You're right about the electrical noise being more if we use a lot of preamp gain (assuming no Cloudlifter and/or clean preamps)... But condensors do pick up a lot of early reflections which blends in with the vocal and is difficult to isolate in post-production. I've always found dynamics better in untreated rooms for the same reason... They don't pick up early reflections that well. With condensors I'd have to always cut somewhere between 200-800 Hz in an untreated room.

[YelovXD]

I don't understand why these kinds of myths and snake oil is so common in the audio space. I'm more interested in headphones, but I was looking to purchase a new mic last week and obviously the question of dynamic vs condenser mic came up. I was aware that most people say that dynamic mics reject more background noise, but it never made sense to me. The microphone has no way to differentiate between the desired sound (your voice) and the background noise. The only thing that makes a difference is the polar pattern, which is not exclusive to dynamic or condenser mics. I saw audio tests where people were comparing the background noise by talking into the microphone, and having the noise source (e.g. an AC) directly behind them. That makes absolutely no sense, as both sounds are coming from the same direction. The microphone can not differentiate that. From a physics stand-point there should be no difference in how much noise a dynamic and condenser mic pick up, just purely from the technology. Yes, a condenser is typically going to capture a wider frequency range, but that can easily be EQd, e.g. you could lower the upper frequencies to pick up less sharp details, which might be perceived to sound louder. What I don't understand is why these myths are so common even among individuals that are well respected in the field. My issue is that it influences people's purchasing decisions. E.g. in the headphone space it's gotten a bit better in some areas, for example most people know that expensive cables won't make your headphones sound better, but people still keep repeating how some headphones are "amp picky" and need a powerful and expensive amp to sound good, when that's clearly not true, and has never been supported by any objective measurement.

[CharlotteWithAD]

This video conflates a general concept of "noise" to mean both preamp noise versus background noise/reverb. Untreated spaces ate terrible for reverb in particular and in terms of someone trying to do some gentle post processing reducing a little hum/hiss from a preamp is infinitely easier than trying to somehow undo reverb

[dighawaii]

I think most professionals wouldn't say a "dynamic microphone" would be best for a voice in an untreated space. Instead, they'd probably also suggest the pickup pattern. You also leave out the ability to close-mic more easily with most common dynamic microphones, thereby organically increasing signal-to-noise, sometimes exponentially over a tube condenser, etc. Yes, there are cardioid condensers, and some are specifically designed for close-micing of voice. But the RE20 is the king of broadcast mics, hands down, because it was designed specifically to be used in limited space, and achieve condenser-like qualities. The science employed in that mastery of engineering is something any aspiring audio-person should dive into.

[apratimsingh]

so basically if my budget is low and i cant afford to sound treat my room, my audio is gonna be shit doesn't matter which type of mic i use. right?