L.O.T.S. Loudspeaker Optimization Techniques for Soundstage!

LOTS | Loudspeaker Optimization Techniques for Soundstage!
0:00 Start
02:02 What is soundstage
03:51 Do we need tools
05:23 First, quick math
07:30 Laying tracks
11:15 Starting positions
11:56 Now we listen
13:37 ONE foot forward
15:37 Horizontal movements
16:50 Toe-in for final voicing
17:42 Tilt adjustments
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[Newrecordday]

One thing to note: Siri and (assume Google) will be using decimals while I am using inches/feet. Feel free to convert if you want but keeping things simple, my method/math will get you close enough!

[jefferyeckes]

As a pro audio engineer for more than 45 years I have to tell you, you nearly nailed this. You missed talking about one very important part of this, and the part this is unique to each room; standing waves. All of what you showed is 100% legit, (though I disagree on toe-in for reasons I will detail in a moment), but standing waves are where your entire process can fall apart.. In my particular room, if I put my listening place in your recommended spot, the bass falls off to almost nothing (cancelling wave). Move 12" back and it gets too loud, move 12" forward and it dials right in. My room is an anomaly, but the point is to listen CAREFULLY and not just follow 'instructions', no matter how talented the presenter.
Now, to toe-in. Toe-in sets up more cross talk between the speakers, which can produce lots of standing waves. Standing waves are USUALLY heard the best in the very low frequencies (described as 'booming' in many cases) but toe-in causes these at MID frequencies (possibly what you are calling 'shouty'). Yes, these DO indeed 'color' your sound, but I would postulate that all you are doing at that point is adding 'confusion' to your system.

I've actually tested this in an arena system as we were developing the 'flying array' systems that back in the 80's and 90's that are the norm now. We found that toe-in actually increased our power and coverage needs. Once we plotted the frequency responses from each side independently, then both sides together, it was clearly apparent that the speakers were 'fighting' each other when toed in. When left flat faced to the audience (even toed OUT a little) the edge response from each array summed in the middle to sound even across the room. Later we added center array's for vocal clarity, but kept the gain about 1-2db down for that array. later, when we began to run stereo rigs, we split the center array down the middle and discovered 'center channel' was better for an arena. It actually enhanced the stereo mix by allowing us to pan harder left and right without depriving the audience on the opposite sides of information. I think the case was that it may be a little easier to 'hear' these things when your room is hundreds of feet in each direction, and your sound system is driven by 150, 000 watts! It does not hurt to be working with Dr Bose and Jack Weisberg (legendary NYC sound company owner) either!

In summary; talk about standing waves and how to listen for and accommodate them in the listening environment. Thanks for the great information videos!

[fod]

THIS IS INCREDIBLE!! For YEARS I knew something was off with my system and followed advice both from the manufacturer (Focal) and from countless "experts" online. The general idea of what everyone tells you is "avoid corners", "use an equilateral triangle pattern", and "listen and experiment". I am a very detail/fact oriented person, and your approach with 1 foot quadrants perfectly measured took enough of the guess work out of this to help me get my system perfect.

For anyone reading this, IT WORKS but you need to follow things exactly. Put the tape down. Measure everything... It will take about an hour of prep, but its worth it. The dark room idea helps as well. I started from the back and actually encountered two spots where things sounded incredible. Keep this in mind if the first spot you find isn't ideal. Also moving the speakers to the left or the right in the square changes things A LOT. I honestly wasnt expecting this. When you find the right spot, move the speakers far forward again then back a foot at a time... confirm your results!

Sending you a little something via PayPal as a huge thank you for this free advice!

[imral]

O.M.F.G! This is amazing. I thought I had things dialed in pretty good and I was actually close. BUT... Using this method I wound up with my speakers moved back about 8 inches more than I had them (1/3 into the room, opposite of my chair) and about 4 inches each more toward the center of the room. My goodness the speakers completely vanished, the soundstage opened up and is vast and cohesive. I couldn't be happier. Thanks so much for this!

[mightybenaiah]

I saw this video so long ago, but the information you shared stuck in my head. After two years I finally finished purchasing the items needed for a respectable system. It was tough having to sit and look at each piece on my shelf and wonder and dream of how it would all sound some day. Well today was the day I finally set it up.
Like many, I pushed the speakers back to the wall so there would be ample flow through the room. The sound was detailed and accurate, but something was off. There was no "presence" to the singers and instruments.
It was then I remembered your LOTS technique. I pulled the speakers WAAAY forward and started listening with my eyes closed in a dark room. I backed them up until I heard what you described as unmistakable and boy it was. When that spot hit, suddenly I had musicians and singers centered right in front of me with decays off to the sides. If I hadn't experienced that from your words of audio wisdom, I would have been missing the real joys of owning an audiophile system. I would have wanted new speakers at a minimum and perhaps even thought it was altogether a waste of money. But when the soundstage was properly set up, a huge smile just lit across my face. It was emotional, involving, and it drew you in.
My room may not be neat and orderly when compared to others, but oh the sound, the glorious sound. Thanks again Ron

[indranilmitra]

I hate you Ron, cause this works to perfection. My room is far from ideal and this method still worked. Unfortunately the speaker position has to be in the middle of the room. Guess I'll have to pull it out everytime i sit to listen for long hours. No big deal, totally worth it.

[redstang]

And this is the difference between a real listening room and a home theater, or a family room. Hard to get perfect speaker placement without a dedicated room where you can get the speakers away from the walls. Because of the layout of my theater I've long known that my speaker placement for music sucks so I'm knowingly sacrificing it - but I've been doing it for so long I'd sort of forgotten about the 'magic' I know my speakers can deliver. You've inspired me to move them around - if even for the day - just to experience the magic again. Thanks! Maybe the sliders need to be permanent - move them out for an occasional listening session - slide them back when done.

[SixStringHarmonies]

This actually works exceedingly well. I've been going back and forth for weeks, unable to decide a final placement.

This did the trick. The one foot increments drive home the point.

Well done!

[robertuskoppies]

Hi Ron, I just came across this vid when watching Tarun's (A British Audiophile) channel. So I was curious. Some of my buddies tell me that my listening position is completely "off", because I'm sitting in "monitor position" in a 4m (wide) and 5, 5m (long) listening room and not in a "triangular" setup. Guess what, I just measured my position, which I have found after years and years of listening.
Just to confirm that your L.O.T.S. is spot on: my ears are around 1, 85m away from the front wall and my speakers are located exactly in a track that is between 1/3 and 1/4 from the side walls. The speakers are pointing at the outside of my shoulders, so I can clearly see the inner side wall of each speaker (nice check up to see if you toed them in evenly).
So this is indeed an excellent advise for loudspeaker set up!

[stanmonish]

Wow ! This absolutely WORKS !!!

I've tried other speaker placement tutorials and never got the effect that this has produced, but this method brought out a surround sound effect that I have NEVER achieved with my system. I couldn't believe it and even my wife sat there in the sweet spot and was amazed.. and she is a hard customer to please

I can't leave the speakers and seat in the locations that I ended up with, but they are marked on the floor for those times when I want to enjoy my stereo. It is amazing

Thanks a million !!!

[ericdaniel]

Thank you so much for this!

The tip of starting with the speakers all the way out instead of up against the wall was GOLD. I thought the poor sound in my new house was a function of reflections and a bad room.

I was ready to drop a bunch of cash on room treatments and even shop for different speakers (and i love my current speakers). Turns out I just needed them about 6' off the front wall.

Now my soundstage is holographic and the tubby bass is tightened right up. Outstanding. Thank you again!

[oleksiifilippov]

Yep. My father was telling me that his speakers are front ported, so it doesn’t matter where they are. Until recently, when I came and moved them away from the wall and he’ve heard the thing. Now he’s a believer)

Thanks for sharing the technique, I’ve done it mostly by ear. I’ll certainly try it.

[DeAnna]

I'm so glad I found this video! About 10 years ago I invested quite a bit into my sound system, especially the speakers, and I thought I had it set up pretty well, and was quite pleased with the sound, but somehow felt it was lacking a certain something... well this was it, I just needed to pull my speakers away from the wall! I could only bring them forward 30cm, but even that was enough to make a big difference, the music has really come to life, I'm enjoying my CD collection all over again. Thank you so much! 😊

[jackvanderwerf]

The math is very much in line with what I've read, then done. And when you're close, an inch or 2 out or in, forward or back can make a noticable difference. But I have NEVER been able to make those speakers disappear. When good, the speakers are like the microphones, and the performance is behind and outside their placement. That's been like the holy grail for me. Great tutorial on the mechanics of getting it done. Thanks.

[careerdetective]

The best explanation of placing I have ever heard/seen. Thanks, dude. Keep on rocking.

[enjoyunreality]

It is Thank you so much. If you listen once like this, you cant go back. It is not music anymore

[philrob]

Stumbled upon the channell as im down the worm hole of hifi on youtube... i cant wait to do this tomorrow when i get home from work... you got a subscriber

[abritishaudiophile]

There is LOTS of great advice in this video (sorry, I couldn’t resist). Rock solid method to getting your speakers in the right place. Well done buddy!
Best wishes from the other side of the pond, Tarun.

[perecasa]

I moved my hi-fi system to a larger room and had no idea how to set it up; it sounded terrible. I remembered your video with the LOTS system, and what a difference! Like night and day. Thanks so much, Ron. You've saved my audiophile life.

[Zuringa]

You've got to be kidding me! I have spent 2 years not knowing what this system is capable of. I'm astounded!!! And all it is is Elac UB5s, an Onkyo integrated amp and my laptop. Wow!