Plugins vs. Analogue Equipment for Mixing and Mastering - Episode 70

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Streaky from Metropolis Mastering and Shea from ACM discuss the for’s and against's of using plugin's vs the more traditonal analgue equipment, for both mixing and mastering.

Resources :

[robbieartiste]

8:27 I don't know if you have already but maybe you could make a video where you both take the same song and do your own processes, using your own techniques, then compare your results and talk about what you did at the end? I think that would be a good way to compare the two.

[MajestoMusic]

subscribe. Typical me browsing youtube for mix and mastering tips at 5:30 at night over here in Norway. And for once..i found something great! Will bingw watch your videos during this xmas :)

[lgizzledangel]

Streaky hands down nothing better for mastering than analog hardware. Digital losses warmness and thickness the louder it's pushed. The sound even gets thinner.

[soundeng]

Hybrid is the way to go, treat your busses and master buss with analog and plugins, independant channels with plugins. You mix will sound great, and you'll have the best of both worlds. Hybrid for mastering as well.

[davidevans]

I had the opportunity to meet with Bob Katz in the Orlando area in 2004. At the time Bob was a big proponent of using analog or outboard gear. He always suggests that mixing (summing) should be done through an analog mixer. If we look closer, digital processing causes signals to truncate data and tends to round-off results. We will. need amazing digital resolution before we will be able to accurately approximate analog. If we consider 100 's of decisions in the digital domain and the associated truncations then we are in fact moving further away from accuracy. I have never been a believer in plug ins for mastering. I guess if each plug in was housed in it's own small microprocessor, then the accumulation would be much closer, but to entertain the idea of just one processor just makes things increasingly less accurate. The point here is that having individual microprocessors does not load down a single computer and weaken it's decision making power. Approximation 1 X Approximation 2 X Approximation 3 X Approximation (n) does not does not move us in the right direction. Thanks for your advice on the Junger D01. I'm moving in that direction as we speak. I will probably attempt to acquire an L2 as well. I have an Aphex Dominator II Model 720 in the analog that has been modified to my specifications. Around year 2000 when outboard digital processors were all the buzz, I went down that road and own most of them from DBX, TC Electronic, Behringer and most recently Junger. At the time people were under the misconception that their must be some predetermined mastering decision inside these digital work-horses. Over the last 15 years I've retreated and pretty much done an about face back to using out of the box analog equipment. Of course I still use my digital stand alone processors for quick and dirty processing. The decision to use plug-ins is cost effective but really gets to the heart of the matter of what qualifies one to call themselves a mastering engineer. It is certainly cheaper, but it will never be the same as pure analog (out of the box) mastering...

[dillaryclump]

I know this video is very old but I was wondering if anyone could tell me what is meant by "adding a db or 2"? In terms of limiting, does this mean distributing the amount of gain reduction across multiple limiters? Also, will the sound of my mix be affected if I have it at -8 db after any eq / compression / processing and then raise it with the input from the first limiter ( 8 db gain) plus whatever is necessary to get the 1 to 2 db of gain reduction (so if its at -8db, I'd input 10 db to get around 2 db of gain reduction)? Or are limiter artefacts only introduced after the gain reduction begins to be applied? Am I even making any sense?

[creativemixing]

is the the little room behind the restaurant ?

[willdobson]

Good to hear opinions from people who really know what they're talking about. I would love to see/hear that video comparison at some point!

[Jrscarratt]

I'd say for me I like tracking through analog gear and then mixing in the box. If you make a lot of decisions in the tracking stage then 1: Mixing will be easier and 2: you won't have to work the plugins as hard because you've already added the flavour/mojo.

[NyakzOTSD]

I think its about comfort! If you feel you can use Digital to get the best sound then use it, and if vice versa for Analogue. What I find interesting is if you did a blind test would you be able to tell? Most likely not - A lot of the time its just mind game of comfort

[Fwuzeem]

Glad they mentioned Slate, as they're damn good

[ollieneedham]

I work in a hybrid fashion... plugins (Waves, Slate, Brainworx, Sonnox, Fabfilter) on most tracks, analogue chain on the vocal track and a couple of analogue processors on the whole mix. Plugins are great for recall-ability and do sounds great, but no plugin sounds like a great hardware vari-mu compressor on a complete mix.

[MJ-ruiw]

Like always I learned something new. Great video. The middle grounds between "in" and "out" would be hybrid mastering. I am new to this subject of mastering but likely great results could come from mastering both in and out. I currently am studying "in the box" since it is more affordable for me but I would love to one day learn "out" as an apprentice. After a few years I am still learning the ropes and basics. I hope to be much better in 10 years.

[csdream]

Streaky you have mentioned in many occasions your use of the hunger limiters to get an extra DB our of younlimiting chain a few times but you don’t use them any more. At this point I have an L2 hardware unit. But I’m looking to add another limiter into my hardware chain to get that 6DB - my question is which model of the JUNGER did you use and how do you wire it up how did you wire the digital digital / analog input and output from it thanks

[lmpcrew]

Nice pros & cons, I find I mix 90% ITB, however my key elements like vocals & mixbus have to get some OTB treatment, for example I use a WarmAudio76 inserted on lead vox and to me the emulations compress but you don't get that shift in the 3D side of things in comparison. Inserting my bettermaker Eq542 500series on the mixbus just give me an uplift & cleanliness that the emulations fight to achieve.
Good stuff guys. Thanks

[Fwuzeem]

Something that hasn't been paralleled is the Manley Vari Mu Compressor. Something sounds like the hardware

[deathbloodkittens]

I think that you can get benefits from both, for me i'll use what ever the studio has

[WheelieMix]

"Analog isn't a necessity". It is true. But when a client come to a big studio for MIXING (not tracking), does he looks for someone that will use only what's necessary or someone that will use his skills combine to the mojo of unique piece of hardware to bring that "slight difference" that we all hear when comparing plugins to hardware ?
There a plenty of super talented mixing engineer EVERYWHERE, not only in studios now. So if big mixing engineer are playing with the same toys as everyone, they'll end up with basically the same kind of sound that anyone have. Just perhaps a bit different. Everyone use Echoboy, you can hear it everywhere for example...
So that's why when a client come to me, to mix at the studio. I always try to take the best of the studio as much as I can. Otherwise they could just pay me front end, I mix in the box at home, and come 1 or 2h at the studio check the mix, at least putting a mixbus processing on hardware and call it a day.
Also I'm a bit biased since I've learned to mix only ITB, but since I've started to mix OTB I've really felt more inspired and motivated. Things started to sound more as I wanted, quickly so...

If you are interested in a studio that is only mixing/tracking OTB look at Kerwax Studio in France. They built their own console and are even selling a piece of hardware ;).

[AgustinDavidF]

I love your talkings, I learn a lot. Thank you ;)

[inactiveaccount]

Hi Guys, im 100% ITB.. I think mastering is the only thing left where the analogue argument still holds water. Be interested in hearing more A/B comparisons with some of the Brainworx stuff and a few other decent software devs. Big ups, Great channel.