State or Private Law Society? (by Hans-Hermann Hoppe)

[Nielsio]

@DieTheDeath The reason I can upload longer videos is because I have an old-style Directors Account. I got lucky getting here early.

[christo]

I agree about the war on drugs especially. I understand it up close and personal because I worked in a Methadone clinic (in the IT dept) and I spoke with patients all the time on smoke breaks. Our drug laws are horrible and destroy the lives of young people especially.

[kummando]

I can't believe that we have a libertary party in brazil and libertarian student groups... i just saw someone with a rothbard t shirt in the streets and i live in a city with population of 10.000 people. HAHAHAH...

10.000 people, two libertarians... lets convert everybody and ask for secession.

[ManAgainstTheState]

@ecnerwal999 On your website, you confuse coercion with aggression, government with law, and anarchism with pacificism. Libertarianism implies anarcho-capitalism; monarchy, while preferable to democracy, is still anathema to liberty.

[laskji]

I agree that there are ambiguities and complications. But at least it is an attempt to avoid the current free for all where (basically) might makes right.

[Nielsio]

Under anarcho-capitalism coercion doesn't become legal. You pre-empt situations through contracts. Those are the only thing any agencies can act on. In my video 'How Could A Voluntary Society Function?' I also deal with the problem of how to deal with property-disputes that have not been agreed upon beforehand.

[richardday]

Does anyone know how Hoppe envisions criminal punishment and/or victim compensation working in a private law society?

[christo]

Taxation is predicated on the legal use of force. The ability to tax doesn't define a state, it is enabled by the state. I refute his definition. No power to tax can exist without a monopoly on the legal use of coercion.

[ManAgainstTheState]

@ecnerwal999 Check out 'Libertarian Anarchism: Responses to Ten Objections' by Roderick Long. He deals with several of your objections very succintly.

If you want a longer discussion, I am a regular poster at the friendly Mises Institute community forum. Be good to see you there!

[niklasbastholmhansen]

Thanks for providing this video, and for providing the annotation to the start of Hoppes' part :)

[ManAgainstTheState]

@ecnerwal999 Again, you're confusing aggression with force/coercion. The NAP forbids aggression, which is the INITIATION of force/coercion. Defensive force/coercion, such as the force used by private security agencies in anarcho-capitalism, is not a violation of the NAP. Your "libertarian monarchy" necessarily violates the NAP; it must tax, which is aggression, and it must aggress against any potential competitors in the provision of security/law that may emerge.

[Nielsio]

"Furthermore, this really only lends itself to land. If I stick a fishing rod in a stream nobody else knows about, do I own all the fish [..]"

I consider this a very legitimate objection to Hoppe's approach to the problem. Hoppe is what I would call an 'axiomatic libertarian'. I have made a critique of that in a video called 'Crusoe, Morality, and Axiomatic Libertarianism', where I also elaborate on a more nuanced version to the idea of private property.

[christo]

What if you refuse to abide by the ruling? Some authority has to have the power of coercion. There also needs to be police, men with guns who enforce criminal law. There can't be multiple contradictory laws in the same jurisdiction. This would also lead to a pure democracy.

[WarToRock]

Greets from Germany. Nice vod. Well done. Lets create a way more cooler society.

[SunBeamsan]

@Esoparagon I give it about another 20 years if the states are lucky before they totally collapse or phase out.

[cabgt]

@ecnerwal999 We can probably never eliminate murder, but does that mean we shouldn't aim for 0% murder?

[ManAgainstTheState]

@ecnerwal999 If you own it, and I use coercion to take it from you, yes that's theft, stealing, aggression. But if you then use coercion to take back your own property, that's not theft. That is defensive (or retaliatory) coercion by you, not aggressive (or initiated) coercion, which is what I did. Given that I have stolen from you, do you have the right to use retaliatory coercion against me to retake your property, or not? Are you a libertarian or a pacifist?

[laskji]

Also if we quit focusing all the laws on how to expropriate (counterfeiting through the financial system, taxation) others, as well as all the useless drug and victimless crime laws, we could focus lawmaking on what really matters: the question of legitimate fruits of labor and conflict avoidance.

[christo]

If the arbitration doesn't go your way and you refuse to pay, who is going to force you to pay? SOME cases could be secured by escrow accounts, but in some cases, that might not be possible. One or both parties may need access to the capital during the dispute. Either way, you MUST give some arbitrary group the power of coercion and once you do that, you have a state. This is enescapable. We supposedly already have a system like this with our 50 states.

[christo]

How can a single geographical area be under the jurisdiction of 2 equal competing legal systems? What if I subscribe o legal system a and my neighbor subscribes to legal system b and we have a conflict and the two legal systems are not in agreement in our specific conflict? How can there be 2 equal sets of laws in the same area that are in conflict. Legal system A says drugs are legal, system B says drugs are illegal.Anyone you give legal coercion powers is a state by definition.