Differences With Jordan Peterson (Pt. 3) | Michael Shermer | ACADEMIA | Rubin Report

Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report talks to Michael Shermer (science writer, historian of science, founder of The Skeptics Society) about his new book “Giving the Devil His Due: Reflections of a Scientific Humanist”. Michael discusses why he devoted a whole chapter to why he disagrees with Jordan Peterson on some key points. He reveals how he first heard of Jordan Peterson and what his initial thoughts of him were. Michael also discusses the difference between empirical truth and mystic truth.

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All art on the set are original works by Caylin Rose Janet.

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Michael Shermer
Author, Giving the Devil His Due

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[RubinReport]

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[ledzeppelin]

CNN has tested negative for journalism.

[Sulposition]

Jordan Peterson helped me more than my own father.

[quezcatol]

I grew up in swedish public school, sexualizing children at 12, feminist lectures already at 10, had to crawl in tunnels and play "refugees" at 14 - guess what I found out by my former teacher on social media? warning people about "creepy jordan b peterson". And yes, I had the same teacher from grade 4-9

[katecreate]

What makes Dr Peterson stand out is that most of what he has spoken about is common sense values that have been lost for a generation or two. Most values were shaped over time because of the development of civilization, every generation adding more lessons to be learned, narrowing down to the core values that matter in creating a functioning society, and preserving it for their next generation. It changed in the 60's, as instead of contributing to create values that is to unite communities, that generation threw thousands of years of collected values and morals just to restart on their own experiment judgement of principles. In effect trying to reinvent the wheel, thus creating a stunt in the function of learning to collaborate in everyday society.

My generation was the brunt of this as it was the first generation that divorced families became the norm, there was little structure in the home resulting in children to not understand of respecting authority positions, never learned to earn anything as most of what we had were given without a second thought of how it enables dependency to an unhealthy degree, lacking perspectives of a context that limits our critical thinking and communication skills, etc. It's a generation that is truly lost, trying to navigate in a world without any guide or set principles that can carry a person through difficult times, one of the main reasons why this generation lacks the skills to have the confidence in themselves to pull themselves together and why there are so many who have anxiety issues while we lived through one of the most peaceful moments in any society. Growing up, values were not centered around family; but self desires was the focal point in our society, so many do not understand or experienced loyalty, empathy, faith, any principles to work through problems. Instead it became about status and finding different social interactions to hijack into planting their own unproven principles, that in the end have made everyone miserable.

Dr. Peterson was the one who brought back those stories and themes of traditional principles that our parent's generation threw away decades ago. He brought thousands of years of knowledge that has been a service to a millennia, something that was robbed from this generation. Jordan understood that there was more to the younger generations making a mess of everything they touched and instead of placing blame, he told us behind the origins of certain themes in certain stories and how those themes have a role in society. He knew this generation was unhappy and our principles that we were taught in some ways could have more damage than a lot of people would like to admit, which is why the left have been going after him. Dr. Peterson gave us the tools, the guide book of how to get through difficult situations, situations many of our parents or teachers never wanted to acknowledge. We needed truth, he gave us the principles of finding the truth for ourselves, and while I don't like my generation I see hope that we could be the turning point to reverse the damage and try to steer future generations to what has worked that we were not told before.

[grantfrith]

I've been calling myself an atheist for over 10 years now.

I've been facinated by Jordan's take on reality since the beginning of his rise to public prominence.

Since then I've explored many thinkers and ideas and have come to a new understanding.

So this is how I see it. The question is not "if" God exists or not but, "what is the nature of God?"

The idea is not to try and understand what anyone else's idea of God might be because we all are incomplete in our thinking.

So if we all "act" as if God exists as Jordan puts it (and he makes a good case for that), then it's in our best intrest to perfect our understanding of God's reality.

As Einstein once said " all religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree".

This means to me that our language is insufficient to describe reality in the first place. We only have the pursuit of truth. Real truth is not contrary to reality it simply "is".

Discovering truth is all we've got and the most noble thing we can pursue.
Neither science nor religion should contradict each other. They are simply complimentary languages to express the existence we find ourselves in... You cannot escape either.

I think Jordan is one of the most underrated and missunderstood persons on the planet.

[rogerc]

Is Dr. Peterson doing okay? Been so worried about him.

[dragons_red]

I strongly disagree with Shermer on some things, but of all the old school skeptics crowd (Harris, Dawkins, etc) I have the most respect for him. He can recognize there is something to the likes of a Peterson while not feeling threatened and so be able to respectfully disagree with some key points.
The fact that he had Peterson do the forward and Peterson accepted and wrote what he did is a beacon of light for thoughtful discourse.

[oreoboo]

I really love Jordan Peterson, he is a great mind and so much sense. I hope he comes back soon. He is human and has problems like the rest of us. I miss listening to what he has to say.

[discomfort]

I disagree with Jordan Peterson on a lot of things, but he has meant a lot to boys and men everywhere and for that he has my has my deepest respect. There are far worse people to look up to than Jordan.

[ZeeroDubs]

I understand and respect the perspective of a skeptic but there is something unfulfilling about just being skeptical for skepticism's sake. It is easy to just stand back and poke holes in things without offering an alternative.
Jordan, however, offers meaning without having to stop being skeptical. Because you dont have to necessarily believe that Jesus died on the cross to realize the profundity of the story just like you dont have to believe that pinocchio actually went to the belly of the whale to save his father.
Shermer is right about them talking on 2 different plains. It's like a mathematician arguing with an artist about the color of an equation. Not all truths are empirical. I would very much enjoy a conversation between Shermer and Peterson.

[TheMaxer]

Dr. Shermer, we are moved by stories emotionally, psychologically, AND spiritually.

[keithwilliams]

Shurmer tends to sleepwalk through his "cynical analysis." He JUST called graham hancock an archaeologist. Which Graham explicitly confirms ge is NOT.

He is an author.

Just another example of his lazy mindedness.

[hansreitmeyer]

Weird to have two guys not named Jordan Peterson arguing over what he believes

[cherylcallahan]

TYVM 🌻🌷🌻 The Rubin Report very interesting commentary

[chalfo]

ok... so what does he disagree with Jordan on? He sets out Jordan's position, but doesn't counter with his own. I've only seen him twice before and that's all he seems to do … maybe his books are better, but orally he bores me.

[jeremyrainman]

I appreciate Shermer, and I haven't read his book yet, but I still think he's not interpreting Jordan's ideas of truth properly. To be honest, I don't think Jordan is expressing his ideas of truth in a way that empiricists will ever fully accept.

[Mike]

The difference between Michael Shermer and Jordan Peterson is one of them is actually beneficial for humanity.

[unpossible]

For being a professional skeptic, Shermer seems to require an awful lot of proof to validate his skepticism.

[BlueLighteningGojo]

Jordan Peterson is an absolute genius.