Does Consciousness Have a Supernatural Component? | Jay-VA | Talk Heathen 04.35

SHOW TIME-STAMPS

00:00 Intro
04:40 Patricia-NM | Vi’s Secular Witchcraft
13:28 Logan-CA | Christians Think People Go To Hell?
17:52 Elli-Germany | Moving Past Subtle Christian "Rules"
32:54 Bridget-TX | How To Deal With Parent's Religion
41:15 Jay-VA | Does Consciousness Have A Supernatural Component?
55:21 Rande-CA | New Conversations For A New(er) Atheist
01:14:44 Moldred-NY | God Is The Big Bang?
01:22:29 Mike-CO | Mike's Journey to Judaism
01:31:49 Doug-AZ | Coping with Religious Family Members
1:40:57 Jason-PA | Agnostic Responding to Christians?

SHOW NOTES

Hello everyone and welcome back to Talk Heathen! We are joined again by our hosts Eric Murphy and Vi La Bianca. Thanks for tuning in!

Up first, Patricia in NM, asks Vi about their secular witchcraft practices. Vi explains how secular rituals can “hijack” one’s brain to affect your mindset. “Spiritual” experiences can be secular, rituals do not need to invoke the supernatural to be meaningful.

Elli in Germany discusses moving past Christian behaviors. The hosts discuss religion “programming” these behaviors and how to break down automatic reactions and rewire better thought patterns.

Bridget in TX asks how to deal with her mother’s religious beliefs that conflict with reality. The hosts share how to pick your battles and show empathy for a loved one with whom they disagree.

Jay in VA is no longer a theist, but suspects there is a supernatural component to our existence. Eric breaks down the concept of consciousness and how it relates to our existence. This call takes a turn and ends up in Deep Space Nine.

Rande in CA asks about faith, reason, logic, and indoctrination.... This call has it all. Rande shares how declaring his atheism has led to all sorts of conversations. Our condolences for your loss..

Moldred in NY talks about pantheism and how god is the Big Bang. Our hosts are not convinced of that claim. Convince us of your convictions, Moldred! Better luck next time!
Mike in CO discusses his conversion to Judaism, and how he appreciates more of the culture and history than the theology.

Doug in AZ talks about living a deconverted adult life with religious family members. Our hosts have some conversational methods to soothe over those tensions while also realizing that we can’t deconvert others.

Jason in PA talks about beliefs, agnosticism, and responding to christians who want to know the truth. Vi explains how biblical “knowledge” is often intersected by myths and exaggerations, and how to convey that to Christians.

Thanks for watching everyone, thank you to our crew and supporters that keep this ship afloat! We’ll see you next week!!

Call the show on Sundays 1:00pm-2:30pm CDT:
-Use your ☎ and call 1-512-991-9242

The podcast may be found at:

-------

WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?

Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.

Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.

The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.

We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.

CONTACTS & SOCIAL MEDIA

Instagram:
Eric Murphy: Erictheheathen
Vi La Bianca: vilabianca

Twitter:
Eric Murphy: @dirtyheathen
Vi La Bianca: @AuthorConfusion

NOTES

The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.

Opening Theme:
Ethan Meixsell "Takeoff"

Copyright © 2020 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.

[Morgan-uxic]

This whole conversation reminds me of the video game SOMA

[RobertsAdra]

This reminds me of when I found my high school diary when I was in my 40's. I had a memory of that diary, I remembered some of the events in that diary, but even though I knew it was me that wrote it, it felt like I was reading a strangers thoughts and a stranger's life. Not only was my penmanship different but my whole way of expressing myself seemed foreign. I wouldn't be able to duplicate/recreate that past "self" even if I tried my hardest. LOL. Not sure how this relates, or if it does at all, but it popped into my head.

[trinsit]

When you mentioned the ship of Theseus thing, all i could think of is how our cells are constantly dying and being regenerated. The body is literally made of the physical food we've eaten that the body has torn apart and turned into new parts of the body, new cells, and by about every 7 to 10 years, all cells have already been replaced.

[gid]

"Consciousness is the software of the brain." - TMM
My fav definition so far.

[mender]

I am river. Molecules are constantly flowing in and out with every breath, yet I remain me. I am made of star dust.

[peddler]

If you come out of the transporter with a goatee, it's the evil you.

[blarglemantheskeptic]

This _Ship of Theseus_ question also mirrors the "began to exist" issue in William Lane Craig's derivation of his version of the Kalam. What does that mean? In a discussion with Alex O'Connor, he claimed that Alex *began to exist at conception, * but to try to counter the Ship of Theseus objection, he gave an example of a chair beginning to exist when it began to look like a chair. This was my response (which I think is totally relevant to the current discussion also, because the question is, does a person become an entirely new person as soon as they have a new thought?):

The "chair begins to exist" analogy response is very poorly thought out. Saying that alex exists now, but not in the Jurassic equivocates on the basis of scale.

*Chair example: I have a chair, then spill wine on it. Is this the same chair, or is it now "chair+stain" that just this moment began to exist?*

How does this help? Well:

A) if it is the same chair, then via a (large but) finite number of incremental steps, chair can become a boat, but is somehow still a chair. Or, if I replace all parts of the chair one at time, the (still the same) chair can now contain exactly zero of the original atoms. How are either of these examples "still the same chair"? Considering the chair-now-boat, an atom that existed in the Jurassic that via a finite number of steps became accumulated into a collection of atoms that is now asking questions of WLC. So Alex did exist during the Jurassic. Simply choosing the point where a collection of chemicals arranged into an egg encountered another collection of chemicals that were arranged into a spermatozoa, and choosing this moment to say that Alex began to exist, *is entirely arbitrary* and a monumentally terrible argument.

Or,

B) if it is chair+stain, then at every moment, addition or removal of a single atom necessarily creates a new object. So the Alex that WLC is talking to at that moment isn't the same Alex that started the conversation.

However you look at it, this view of "began to exist" requires an arbitrary choice of moment, because the object could be said to have existed from the very first moment a quark (that is inside it) existed, or it began to exist anew at every moment an atom is added or taken away.

That is, WLC's counter argument is so bad he shouldn't have made it up.

[TheDahaka]

GUYS! This argument was all over the place! If we don't have a soul and we get transported in a way that's basically creating a copy of you somewhere else, your conciousness doesn't just continue with it! It's a completely new person with your memories and a brand new conciousness! For your conciousness to continue you would need a soul that latches on to your copy, otherwise that's just a new person that thinks he's you

[michaelmcintyre]

Disappointed they didn't reference the TNG episode where they find a teleporter clone of Riker trapped on a planet he was on years ago, who then goes on to have his own separate career in Starfleet after they rescue him.

[AussieNaturalist]

Without a material 'brain' there is no evidence that conscience could exist, so I see no need to think that it could be supernatural.

On a more important note, Voyager is my favorite ST series, but DS9, Discovery, Picard, Enterprise and TNG are not far behind.

[stephenohanlon]

It's like Trigger's broom (Only Fools & Horses): he was given a medal for using the same broom for 20 years.. which had had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.

[eyreaus]

Same conundrum was what The Prestige was based on. Given a duplicator where one has to kill the other lest there be two of you could you do it? Who is the real one and which is the duplicate? So forth.

[cyansloth]

I can’t see a way that we keep existing past death but damn I wish we could eh? It feels really tragic if I let myself think about it so I don’t. Every human or other animal that I’ve known and their personalities and struggles and triumphs and in the end it’s all gone and on top of it forgotten. Eventually.

[aierce]

But we don't have teleporters. We don't even know that's possible, and even it's possible, we don't know what teleporter will do to consciousness. You can't proven one unknown with another unknown.

[michaelzurilla]

Organisms are a sort of dissipative structure. They are based on patterns. Imagine water running down a drain, there is a funnel shaped structure that is constantly replaced by new material. The vortex is real in the sense it maintains its structure, albeit with constantly refreshed material. All living organisms do the same. If the replication of the nervous system is completely accurate, then the emergent properties of consciousness would similarly be reproduced. Of course, that does not eliminate the possibility of a supernatural component 😏 Love you Vi

[immortalsofar]

I've been going through severe depression - having to start over after 25 years when everything I valued has been taken away and I really wish I wouldn't wake up in the morning. When I sleep, the day ends and I've a pretty good idea that someone is going to wake up at the start of another, in my bed believing they are me. Why they would do that through choice is, frankly, beyond me so I guess it's fixed. I don't see how a transporter would feel any different. Whether the me who wakes up in the morning or arrives at the destination is the _same_ me as the one who went to sleep or stepped onto the transporter pad doesn't matter to the me who woke up or arrived.

[Alienshade]

Yes Vojeger is realy good! One of the best I think.

[robertdullnig]

Funny how he asks Vi if she knows Star Trek a few minutes after she references a Star Trek episode. Also, love how much attention Tuvix is getting on these shows. Matt referenced Tuvix a few months back on AXP, and I'm not sure if he's prepared for that level of debate.

[nameforcomments]

This also reminds me of the old question of, if you could somehow fully repair someone's dead body to totally intact, and get its organs going again, including the brain, with synapses intact to how they were before death, would that be the same person? I'm not insinuating that this will ever be possible, but my thinking is that, if it did happen, there's no reason it wouldn't be the same person.

[countroshculla]

Star Trek and atheism? Beam me up now!