A radical theory of consciousness | AI researcher Joscha Bach

Joscha Bach puts forward his radical theory of cyber animism.

Can the natural world be understood in terms of software agents?

Most are sceptical that artificial intelligence will one day become conscious. But might this scepticism be misguided? Join leading AI researcher, Joscha Bach, as he argues that we can create artificial consciousness if we open ourselves up to the possibility of cyber-animism, the idea that consciousness and spirit is akin to a software agent that naturally emerges in a biological organism.

#computerscience #ai #consciousness #biology #interestingfacts

Joscha Bach is an exceptional cognitive scientist who is pushing the limits of what we can achieve with Artificial Intelligence. As an AI researcher, he is constantly exploring new frontiers in cognitive architectures, mental representation, emotion, social modelling, and multi-agent systems.

00:00 Introduction
00:09 Consciousness is virtual
01:56 Human brains vs computers
03:21 AI vs the organic mind
04:56 Self-organising systems
07:18 Genesis 1
10:47 How children develop consciousness
12:16 Natural software agents

[GingerDrums]

As Bernando Kastrup points out: sascha is not explaining conciousness, he is simply redefining it. To say that conciousness is a simulation sounds inciteful but instead just kicks the hard problem further down the road.

[atilliator]

Joscha Bach is the only speaker I need to slow down to listen to.

[amiwho]

I dont know if I misunderstood him, but something clicked for me:

Our hardware brain is constructing a virtual representation of itself. That representation is consciousness.

Consciousness is a decision-making construct. It makes decisions based on what the hardware has calculated from all its inputs and past experiences.

Edit:

So, "Virtual" and "Consciousness" are not synonymous. But maybe virtuality is a requirement for consciousness?

What other requirements should be included in the definition?

One here mentioned "planning", and I mentioned "decision making".

But simple cells can make decisions based on the combination of inputs they receive. If they are non-conscious, maybe planning would be a better criteria.

I dont know anything besides humans that can make plans. Planning involves running mental simulations of decisions that will lead to a goal. Its pretty complex when you think about it. It's actually amazing!

[Aphanvahrius]

Huh, that perspective on the Genesis myth is absolutely fascinating

[CodexPermutatio]

Joscha Bach is one of the most interesting living philosophers. Thanks for uploading this.

[SomewhatAcoustic]

Who cares if it’s simulated by the brain. What’s special is the experience itself. Whether you are experiencing raw base reality or a dream is irrelevant. That fact there is an experience to be had is the magic. It’s very different than the concept of money. The experience itself is a very real thing. Blows my mind trying to think about it.

[GeorJiadvaita]

advaita vedanta (ajata vada- Prakashananda) - theory of drishti shristi vada- Consciousness precedes all manifestations and not shrishti dristhi vada - consciousness is an emerging property of increasingly complex matter

[danscieszinski]

I really respect Joscha. He’s at the apex of AI and knowledge. Today I heard him talk like an unapologetic Platonist for the first time which is awesome. His suspension of disbelief makes him the most visionary thinker in the public discourse imo. Keep pushing the envelope Joscha!!

[vicp]

10:50 “and the purpose of the exercise is to navigate the organism in the world”…certainly can be the most mundane statement to the most profound depending on the listener. Starting with the simplest like an amoeba with an integrated motor system up the ladder of evolution whereby the control system differentiates from the motor system. Fundamental purpose of brains is navigation.

[therobotocracy]

I remember listening to this guy on a podcast while I was in a car, on a dirt road, in rural China. We were stuck behind an old guy who was pulling an enormous cart full of heavy looking stuff. His back curved with the weight of the cart like he was formed around the load at birth. Anytime I listen to Bach or others who speak in platitudes of their elite own knowingness, I think of that hunched man and filter these ideas through him, to help guide me in what is real.

[lemonsys]

Ok, but the problem is how does physics produce a dream? The money analogy totally breaks down, because we project money as a reality - so physics must somehow also do this. How? How does physics project something virtual? We can do it because we are already conscious, but how does unconscious matter do this?

[TheDeadlyDan]

The key is that reference frame for self vs non-self. The body (brain) is nothing but our Markovian blanket providing bi-directional communication with other boundaries. Without that internal frame of reference, you cannot have Consciousness. And yes, it comes before the intellect. My cat is as conscious as I, just not as bright. She has that internal frame of reference.

[brothermine]

I don't know what Bach means by "consciousness, " so I'll avoid that vague term and say we have no reason to believe that a chatbot's extensive database, plus its hardware operations and inputs, bestows it with any first-person subjective experiencing of qualia or thoughts.

[xDevoneyx]

Fast paced into the complex structures and mechanisms of information processing and back to personal experience and hallucinating (erroneous perception while believing it is so) the self in 13 mins. Well done!!

[BarryBrown-qq]

Hi, I am looking for advice on what I should do next. I have a PhD in Neuro -Cognitive Psychology, a MSc(Dist) in Psychological Research Methods and a BSc(Hons) in Psychology too. I am also Dyslexic so please bear with me on my grammatical errors. I have been independently working on a new architecture for AI, based on mirroring Cognitive-Neuro structures we understand today, I believe I have finally completed it. If I am correct it will massively reduce the need for compute power, ref: - AI’s computing gap, 2024, Nature, Helena Kudiabor, and assist in the process of AI gaining consciousness as we know it? The Architecture is a language based, multi layered, parallel processor that uses inhibitory and activation connectivity, as the main means of achieving goal based action of the AI and reduces the need for weight changes between "Computational Units" to achieve the goal? Ok, please advise, should I publish as concerned if I am correct this will create a paradigm change in AI development which may create consciousness in AI and may be easily applied to many systems immediately? Obviously if I am a narcissistic, deluded, individual there will be no change, what should I do? Should I see if I am a narcissistic, deluded, individual, or a narcissistic genius who gives AI consciousness, any advice gratefully received even if impolite?

I am thinking that publication is my only option at the moment due to my concern of the up and coming release of "Independent Agents", without a facility of consciousness, as I believe it is fare more likely to create the nightmare of the "Paper Clip Manufacturer" without the above facility for insight into its actions? I am published in a world renowned Journal in "Cognitive Psychology", but unsure which journals will have the greatest impact in AI circles, which journal would you recommend?Any advice would be greatly appreciated as so far have had little feedback to my enquiries?

Ow yes I am maintaining my anonymity through the use of a ghost-writer facility at the moment, because of my worries linked to my employment status,   but really would appreciate any feedback as potentially this will be a huge step into the unknown if I do publish in my known academic name.

[piccadelly]

I am in harmony with everything except consciousness. We function like computers but we are self-sufficient and for that we need consciousness. Under anesthesia consciousness is switched off and during this time we practically don't care what happens to our body because we don't exist during this time. Therefore consciousness is life itself, these two things are inseparable. And furthermore everything that is alive has consciousness no matter what it is.

[SteamPunkPhysics]

I wrote a paper laying out the mechanism for this in 2015 "The Neoclassical Interpretation of Modern Physics and it Implications for an Information Based Interpretation of Spirituality" but like my patent for VR I was at least a decade or more too early.

[adon]

I have a theory that consciousness is just a response to a stimulus. Nothing more and nothing less. The response can take the form of any number physical, chemical, or electromagnetic phenomena. Furthermore consciousness is fractal in essence.
This implies that everything is conscious.
The phenomena that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, is what manifests consciousness.


The fractal view elegantly ties together scales of consciousness, from the simplest chemical reactions to the intricate workings of the human brain, and it highlights a potential universality of consciousness across different forms and levels of complexity.

The ontological self is the subjective cosmos inferring its hierarchical domain within the objective cosmos.

[donaldf.switlick]

Many organisms have two hemispheres and can be conscious. On the other hand, self-consciousness, like a mirror, is the recognition of ourselves,  by the reflection, from the mind in our brain's other hemisphere.

[bjarterundereim]

Mr. Bach says: "We can only be conscious in a dream".
Wherever does this idea come from? Enlighten me?