John Piper Maligns The Corporate View Of Election In Ephesians 1 | Leighton Flowers | Desiring God

John Piper put out a video where he walks through Ephesians 1 but doesn't properly represent the corporate view of election. Leighton Flowers and Brian Wagner walk through Piper's video and show where he maligns the view and misinterprets what the scripture is saying.

Check out the full video here:

DOWNLOAD OUR APP:

Or @soteriology101 on Twitter

Please SHARE on Facebook and Twitter and help spread the word!

#JohnPiper #LeightonFlowers #Calvinism #Soteriology101

[sttech]

I was telling my friend exactly what Ephesians 1 meant, yet he still claims that people are predestined to be believers… I’ve talked with him a couple times, and he was unable to provide a good answer to any of my objections. Sadly as it has been said before, it is not logic and rationality that convinces, it’s the heart of the person and how open they are to the truth laid out before them.

[grizz]

Dr. Flowers always conducts himself as a gentleman. His speech and conduct and attitude show no disrespect to anyone. He never name calls or belittles orhers. Whether one agrees or disagrees with him no one can criticize his conduct and soeech. So many others fall short of the standard he has set.

[jaycenaicker]

Thank you Mr Lehighton Flowers for challenging these Calvinist ...keep up the good work.

[fabioamaral]

My dear and beloved brother in Christ Jesus. I urge you to release subtitles in all your videos on You Tuber. And also open a line of videos Dubbed in Portuguese. Because its contents have blessed the body of Christ (church) here in Brazil. Unfortunately, we have many brothers who do not speak English and have difficulty reading the subtitles. All that the brother will be for the Glory of God. Big hug from your brother Fabio Amaral.

[primeobjective]

".. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him."
If you take the Calvinist interpretation, we were ALREADY holy & blameless "before the foundation of the world", "TO BE in Christ".

[loricarl]

Thanks Leighton for these videos, you make everything so much clearer and I experience peace and freedom from your interpretations that are very refreshing.

[gracemercywrath]

Awesome Brother Brian is in the house! 💯💯💯💯

[GreatLightStudios]

The massive significance of the errors in Piper’s statements in this video cannot be overstated here.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of union with Christ in what he is saying.

[ProfessorV.]

Having only recently discovered Dr. Leighton's many discussions on Calvinism, I have truly come to appreciate his balanced thoughts on this important topic. I have never been comfortable with the deterministic fatalism that results from five-point Calvinism or what for me darkens the character of God, which is arguably the more egregious aspect of this "ism".
In respect to this video and Ephesians 1:3-6, might I suggest a different understanding from an engineer's perspective. For years I have taught eschatology in various churches and don't see the necessity of correlating the timing of when "He chose us in Him" in verse 4 to when we actually came into being relative to the "foundation of the earth". Paul's teachings strongly imply that time itself is a created construct (2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2 - best seen in NKJV, NASB, ESV, or NIV1984) so God's actions and foreknowledge, including His choosing, may well transcend the limits of time, even though we experience (or perceive) God's actions in a linear and progressive way. In effect, we may say that God knows the future because technically, He's already there. In other words, God's omnipresence is not merely spatial or within normal space coordinates, which is easy for us to accept, but also relative to ALL time.

[pilotjpbiv]

Spot on!

I cannot understand how people read into scipture Calvinistic ideas. I maybe a simple minded man, but in the Torah, God's CHOSEN people were the Jews (corporate, as a whole). Chosen was defined as a clear group of people, not individuals.

Why would this idea of CHOSEN be changed from how it was so clearly used in the Torah?

[malvokaquila]

If Calvanists would just read only what scripture says, then they wouldn't be Calvanists.

[sheilasmith]

I pray that no Calvinist becomes a homicide detective.
Imagine entering a crime scene with the belief the death was a suicide and maintaining that belief even though the gun is lying 10 feet away....or no gun is ever found.
Why would God create humans with the ability to observe, to think and reason, then expect them to ignore experience. Imagine if we were unable to distinguish a lion from a hummingbird.

[ranger]

People, even non Calvinist, talk about John Piper like he is so spiritual. He has proven over and over to me that he doesn’t know nor understand much of anything when it comes to the Bible and Jesus. All he knows is what he has already decided is the truth and refuses to read the Bible. John Piper is not a spiritual giant, he is a confused individual.

[_JesseStJames_]

Flowers! God bless you brother!

I just wanted to ask if you could one day examine what “Authentic Christian podcasts” teach concerning losing salvation and baptism as necessary for salvation.

I love your work and praise God for your initiative of explaining Scriptures. 3 years watching you and still going!

[soccerman]

Dr. Flowers, Question about context: Couldn’t Paul’s reference to all the blessings, adoption, etc. in verses 1-12 be Paul speaking of these things as the promises made to them as Jews (the “we” of verses 1-12]. Every blessing mentioned in these verses can be found in the Old Testament, but that Paul came to realize they were truly made manifest in Christ, and they, being Jews to whom Christ came first, were the first to believe it, and then beginning in verse 13 Paul declares to the Gentile readers (in Him YOU also) that they also were included when they were found to be IN CHRIST to be recipients of these same spiritual blessings when they believed? It all seems to be wrapped up in the mystery that Paul defines in chapter 3:6 as Gentiles being co-heirs and partners in the promise In Christ.

[fabioamaral]

In all humility, I have learned a lot from watching your channel. Calvinism is acting superbly in Brazil and its ideology is evil. But within that arrogance, many died with their pride and they won't throw in the towel to say: I was wrong! I'm going to ask for forgiveness and change in Christ....Unfortunate. Christ is the only one predestined, chosen and elected and we (Church) being in Christ, are summoned to the call of this contextual election.

[sheilasmith]

If the saved were predetermined by God before they are born, what is the point or purpose of a church, evangelism or reading scripture?
This would suggest that God is illogical since God is expecting us to accept two beliefs that contradict each other.

[andrettanylund]

What about rewards in heaven. What does that mean to a calinist?

[paulmann]

Hello Leighton. Thank you for your teaching. Please can I ask you to get Nick Craig from 'John 17 apologetic's' on your show?

[darbyochill]

I love the point about gifting future generations with blessings. Calvinists might say, “well, see they’re born with the blessings, so they have them from the beginning” and we’d say yes, however, with Christ’s family, we don’t inherit those blessings until we are born into his family! We don’t inherit the blessings such as to be made holy and blessing until we are actually in Him by grace through faith, and once we are we are “born (again) with those blessings from the beginning.”