Green Boots and Time Travel

A review of the recent changes to the Green Boots Wikipedia page and a review of some of the abuses of science references a scene from 12 Monkeys relating to Semmelweis.

links:

[michaeltracy]

As this video is not part of the "Mallory and Irvine" series, I'll open up the comments to new people -- though they are still moderated.

[bigredjanie]

It's surprising that the "dead bodies as landmarks" myth is so often brought up when discussing the ethics of Everest tourism, when you don't need to: The very idea of turning Everest into a tourist attraction that anyone, regardless of mountaineering experience (and with enough money) can climb is dubiously ethical to begin with.

[fluffy_gblin]

I'm so looking forward to your review of The Third Pole.. I just read it recently and was fascinated but am eager to hear your thoughts on it.

[CharlesFreck]

You spoil us, 2 videos in 4 days! Once again enjoyable, excited to hear you have plans even after the Mallory and Irvine videos! You make very enjoyable content

[lisatitirangi]

Thank you for continuing to steer your boat against the current, taking a few of us along with you.

[jaym]

Thank you, Michael, Wikipedia is useless for anything remotely controversial. As my kids' teachers have started to accept Wikipedia citations, I've cautioned them strongly as to what a very poor idea that is. I'll be using this video as a short, clear example for them.
National Geography has joined Scientific American in the great dumpster fire of American Letters.

[FabricofTime]

Claiming you rested on dead bodies is so over the top. I'm not overly precious about dead bodies, but what an absolutely bizarre thing to say.

As the kids say these days, if I used someone's loved one's dead body as an impromptu backrest because I was exhausted and had literally no other option for some reason, you could not waterboard that admission out of me.

What a weird, creepy choice.

Edit to add: I wonder if "bodies as landmarks" came into being from the idea of a dead body lying visibly on a mountain looming rather large in people's consciousness. I.e. its more a post-facto landmark--I vividly remember that cave because there was a corpse in it--rather than a navigational aid--I knew I needed to turn right because I had found the body in the red jacket. As someone who loves language and tries to be fairly precise about its use, I'm accutely aware that other people are NOT so precise, and will often use a "close enough" word, which leads to later misunderstandings that develop into "common knowledge", and thus we have "bodies as landmarks".

Considering some of the absolutely wild misunderstandings and incorrect notions I've seen non-outdoorsy types have about any sort of outdoor activity, it wouldnt surprise me. Seriously, spend any time on trekking/hiking/climbing YouTube and read the comments. People are so out of touch with what outdoor recreation entails that I've seen people straight up insist you're asking for your own death at the hands of a bear or a serial killer if you go for a walk alone in a local county park, or that it's absolutely impossible to know where you are if you're off a road or trail. For a lot of people, the world beyond their house and their route to work is terrifying, mysterious, and unimaginably fraught with danger. Bodies as landmarks is just another weird and frightening thing that those absolute psychos that go out in nature probably get up to.

[FOTAP]

Excellent content, with pure relevance to our day. Thank you Michael Tracy.

[auzmo]

Damn..shooting heavy artillery across some bows.
Seriously though I hope your videos get the attention they deserve. Your research seems second to none, and your videos very imformative. I think your videos can teach a lot about how to research, how to interpret information, and what to trust and why.

[suestaley]

I had read that people covered green boots with rocks as the body had become part of the mountain. Dont have a reference, just remember seeing it.

[thesketchydude]

here is my Controversial opinion that isn't relevant to the Controversy at hand, BUT is relevant to the subject

I don't think Green Boots was Tsewang Paljor, but rather one of the other members of the 1996 Indian Team

why?

well in 2004 the Italians Took the EXACT same route and took photos of 3 bodies in the same exact area of the mountain, one WAS Green boots in his Cave, one was a climber laying on its back with Black Pants, Red Boots (with Prominent Crampons), and an Apparently Red Jacket with blue accent lines, (also their head was "canted backwards" and arms were in rather awkward positions) this body looked VERY old already and may very well be the infamous claimed "Rainbow Valley Skeleton" (which...probably isn't in the South Col at all) based on the position and condition but I digress

they also Photographed another body laying on its chest with a Empty Oxygen canister and blue backpack in the foreground, the body itself was wearing Identical Style and color of Pants as Green boots (even with the weird "crinkly" looking straps on the rear), but it was not wearing a Jacket at all (apparently just a Plaid or thin reddish/white mixed shirt), as a result you could clearly see the face, it was a man with dark and short full head of hair, and they were BADLY frostbitten, but they may have also had a mustache, all features matching with Tsewang Paljor based on the photos of him alive, they were VERY close to the edge of an apparent drop-off so its likely it has since been pushed over by passing teams in the ensuing years

that (at least to me) leaves only Dorje Morup as the ACTUAL candidate for who is in the Cave

[tropics]

So bodies are being removed. Unceremoniously rolled down the mountain ?

[Jasmin-uxho]

Bodies? Back rest? Who are these zombies? OMG..who does that and call themselves human?

[nigellacey]

Was green boots on the way to the summit on the way back?

[alancharles]

I’ve never been brave enough to do such climbing, but the challenging way you analyse some of the “facts” of various accounts is truly eye-opening. Repeat something enough and it becomes “true”. Like thre “three” wise men. It was the gifts that there were three of. Their could have been two or dozen. I like the idea that should have been in Life of Brian, where the whole entourage start bickering as they have all bought the same two gifts with them. In the end one of them owns up to having a gold coin secreted in his sock for emergencies, much to the relief of all the others. Another device that The Bermuda Triangle bloke used to use was the “not yet” excuse. “Scientists have not yet....

[Adaptedsolarpower]

Everest is getting such a bad rap and is almost starting to feel like a place you don’t want to go. I heard on a documentary that they’re dumping bodies in crevasses.

[rickcleveland]

What is your case against Synnott, Pollard, etc.?

[CutmeMick]

Sharp was FILMED in 2006 in gb cave literally dying NOT in 2014 like I see in the wiki..it’s part of the Team from New Zealand, it’s also in a movie called Dying for Everest..completely based on David Sharps climb and subsequent death..Mark and Mark on the team

[kamakaziozzie]

Brad Pitts performance in 12 Monkeys was spot on. He seriously dug into that character.

[kippamip]

A man named Ian Woodall did a fund raiser thetoaofeverest and that's who managed to get green boot's off the mountain. There's a vid on you tube somewhere of him asking for donations. He was on everest in 96 the year greenboots died. He also climbed back up to push Francys Arsentiev down the North face. (sleeping beauty).