Why do philosophers hate poetry?

Did the philosophers hate the poets in Ancient Greece?

Plato believed that poetry played a vital role in educating Athenian citizens but was flawed because it relied on imitation (mimesis) rather than true knowledge. Plato criticized poetry for its unreliable moral guidance and the danger of swaying people by emotions. In contrast, Plato believed philosophy was the true path to the Forms and philosophers were the only ones qualified to lead the people down this path.

Plato's views on poetry have had a significant (sometimes pernicious) influence on Western thought, contributing to censorship and the division between humanities and sciences. However, his insights into poetry and its relation to philosophy remain fascinating.

Greek myth explained:

Greek Religious Practice:

Greek gods and their myths:

Greek Sanctuaries:

Chapters

00:00 - Intro
00:38 - Traditional Poetic Education
01:27 - Mimesis
02:08 - Morality and Poetic Education
05:30 - Republic 10
07:08 - Conclusions

[thomasharlan]

Why do your subscribers love your videos? Because they are replete with high production values, fascinating topics and incisive analysis and interpretation. Overjoyed at the release of your latest video and enjoyed watching it! Thank you.

[Crecganford]

Another interesting video, thank you. I believe poetry was incredibly important to these cultures and those preceding them as it allowed for more reliable oral transmission of information due to its rules and meter, plus they often contained sacred truths and the retelling of myths, key stories in a cultures identity. And so I find it interesting to more deeply understand why the role of the poet demised in Greece, was it like music today... too much of it, and very little memorable... or was it the rise of the written word and scientific thinking, alongside a rejection of the sacred truths that the myths were said to carry, that resonated with the philosophers? Certainly your thoughts on what logos and mythos meant to the Greeks would be interesting, and how they were perceived in the time of Plato.

[susanbergquist]

This is a very interesting way to think about creative arts, disturbing, but interesting.

[myosotis]

The Syrian father of Church history, Eusebius mentions that a neo-Pythagorean named Numenius made a remark to the effect that Platon was a Greek Moses. This is very interesting and a fundamental analysis of the respective grounds and directions of Mosaic and Platonic logoi would be illuminative with regard to Platon’s criticism of the Homeric poets.

[transientimages]

Im very thankful Crecganford recommended your channel! Its good stuff!

I know itd be crass to request something but is there any chance youd talk about greek painters in the future, such as Apelles of Kos and Zeuxis? Ever since I glanced their mention on Naturalis Historia ive been looking as far as i could on info on them and their contemporaries.

[kingmj]

I think there’s still some truth to the general sentiment. Artists may be remarkably adept at communicating their beliefs, but that doesn’t mean an artists’ beliefs are particularly accurate. Just that they’re presented in a remarkably entertaining way.

[Yatukih_]

I am a philosopher and I do not hate poetry. What I hate instead, is pseudo - science. I cannot understand why some people advertise a product as safe and effective and then treat those who criticise it like conspirators who are conspiring against their interests when in reality all they are doing is merely criticising them. Pseudo - science is much, much, much more dangerous than the declining state of contemporary poetry. All you can do about that state, is to improve poetry. There is a ton of philosophers who absolutely love poetry and who are huge admirers of famous and lesser known poets. Back in the day I mistook pseudo - science as some kind of a rebellion and realised later on that the reason people hate it, is because it is standardised. The quest for a standardised mind is over. There is no such thing as a standardised mind and all pseudo - science is based on standardised thinking. The idea of a successfully marketable Trump vaccine that is 110 per cent safe, is not a godsend but a pseudo - science based on nothing but bias. As a philosopher, I would like to see more poets in the world and not just more mathematicians and just more physicists and just more politicians and that´s it - more diversity is needed and ergo new poets are required to create a greater vision of what the 21st century should be like to future generations. Hating poets is like hating moon landing sceptics - it is a futile battle. Thanks for your video!! Best wishes all the way from Reykjavik, Iceland!!

[unclesam]

This is one of the main reasons why I hate Hollywood celebrities.

[EarnestBunbury]

But isn't everything in this world merely a copy of the real thing in the world of ideas, according to Plato? Thus everything is merely a bad copy?

[JOHN----DOE]

Plato was a failed playwright. THAT's why he hated poetry--he couldn't do it. Hypocrite. Aristotle, on the other hand, basically laid out almost everything necessary to say about how poetry actually works. He just doesn't sufficiently appreciate "diction" because he's talking only about poetry which emphasizes plot and character, not lyric poetry which emphasizes the texture and rhetorical structure of language. Otherwise you don't need anything more to understand why "poetry is more philosophical than a history of facts."

[PsychedelicAnxiety]

In Plato, the Ion and the Phaedrus go in depth as to how divine and beautiful poetry is, and Socrates quotes poetry constantly. This video is misinforming.

The expulsion of the poets from the republic is a fairly specific issue and a sacrifice of sorts, it assumes that everything short of philosophy is an inferior form of fulfillment anyways so there is no need of compromises (like poetry) in a controlled setting. The Poets also played a role in the demise of Socrates so it is partly a political issue.

[LateMarch]

My man, the AI art lends a cheap and unserious tone to an otherwise nice video