Will AI Save Or Destroy Humanity? | Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman

How much do you really know about the dangers of AI? Is it the best hope we have of surviving as a species, or will it lead to the destruction of humanity?

On today's episode of Leading, Alastair and Rory are joined by Mustafa Suleyman as he recounts his rise from North London council estate to the vanguard of the tech revolution.

Recorded August 2023

00:00 Intro
01:19 What is technology?
05:50 Defining Artificial Intelligence
12:03 Why are you pessimistic about AI?
16:17 Politics and AI
25:15 From Caledonian Road in London to Silicon Valley
32:30 Mental health and religion
37:58 The future of AI
54:29 Kings in Silicon Valley
56:13 AI in jobs
59:20 What do you wish people knew about AI?
1:01:03 Debrief

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[P--B]

Given Mustafa doesn't have as much name recognition outside of tech world, the thumbnail should have referenced more of his work. Really interesting interview, but almost didn't watch it.

[mapsmaps]

I do like Leading even more than "The Rest is politics". Really interessting and intellegent guest with inside into topics where we all need more to know

[happychappy]

I like Mustafa more than some others in this space. He's rational and patient and willing to explain this subject which not many understand 😊

[abdkamal]

Clearly that was recorded a while ago, the timing of posting is ingenious! Thank you Rory and Alistair. Such a balancing act after Frum

[qlkgekh]

Definitely one of the most interesting interviewees. Smart, eloquent, not defensive ... extremely interesting. Good choice & good job AC & Rory!

[dsjwhite]

As usual this is so enlightening and has shown me how little I know. He is a brilliant man and I need to learn. Thank you.

[randomhats]

Fantastic episode. Why - because of the simplified communication. Thank you! I love every minute and will now buy his book.

[davidwiiliams]

Will Rory's windows fall out without those pieces of wood holding them up?

[moonmonkey]

I'm torn, there's many philosophical people in the technology world discussing ethics, Mustafa seems like one of these BUT anyone handing/selling their tech to companies like Google or Microsoft ultimately look pretty reckless, maybe delusional, or just plain greedy.

Having worked under many executive teams in technology driven industries, they are the scariest people to hand over such power. The sociopathic executive cliché exists because it's common. These are insular social groups who consider themselves 'better' than everyone else. Most of the time they are smart, polite and interesting but fundamentally they are cold corporate creatures driven by big ideas, growth and profit.

Speculating about smaller bad actors and governments is very important but the giant corporate monoliths are the most dangerous animal in the room.

Governments are elected and their job is to serve the people (ideally). Corporations are only designed to deliver profit. They definitely cannot be trusted to be responsible or follow the rules. They need strict external regulation.

[Neofolis]

My biggest concern is that technology is a leveller. The potential of this technology is so great that it has the potential to level everything and everyone. This means that for a good outcome, we need huge empathy, complete acceptance of everyone's differences and the acceptance of true equality. Humanity has always been tribal and combative and the leaders of humanity are often some of the most combative. Most of the people who currently have wealth and power will not want a world of equality, where they are no more important than anyone else, even if that world is better for them as well. I'm fairly sure that many of them would happily see the world burn before giving up their rank and privelege, but that is what I'm sure would be required for a good outcome.

[tabishumaransari]

Mustafa is very very articulate. He does not waste words and remains calm while successfully managing to get across a rather troubling message. I suppose he must have done a lot of reading of high-quality fundamental texts early on in his life.

[iainmackenzieUK]

As a Gestalt therapist (and Teacher of Physics working in China as it happens...), I would like to see more research done into the potential impact of AI (such as Pi) on global mental health and, in particular, individual personal relationships. My concern is how we might become hooked into a bubble in which our projections are accepted as being real and then magnified rather than challenged and self-checked. If this happens, I envisage pressure and confusion for our real relationships.

[RobertHNeal]

As politicians and business leaders have not been sufficiently proactive in dealing with the labour dislocation of globalization and the growth of the internet, what hope is there that they will do better at dealing with the effects of AI?

[carolinecharalambides]

Thank you for this, what a fascinating man, so easy to understand too, has put me on a quest to learn more.

[teresajohnson]

This chat is the .ost I.portant one at this point t in history. Thank you!! We all need to mature so, so much!!!

[TheAngmarArchives]

Great conversation, but I found it strange neither Rory or Alastair picked up on his claim about how great image-making AI is...considering it's likely the biggest copyright infringement in history (AI trained on people's work without permission or benefit to the artists) - it would be great if the guys talk about this. There are class action cases on in the EU about this, and hopefully it will get really difficult for these companies to continue to 'train' their models on artists' work without impunity.

[jatinderaujla]

How lucky are we that his parents chose to come to the UK? We should celebrate our achievements and shout from the rooftops how the UK is/was at the forefront of AI technologies rather than the negatives. Slightly scary that his talent may not have been nurtured without some lucky advise.... How hard can it be to spot every childs talent and put them in the right environment where they learn what motivates them?

[rossyer]

Great guest and I agreed with his approach to technology generally speaking. Thank you for this interview.

[ThePrimaFacie]

49:00 to me the face change was strange either mock laugh or not wanting to get caught kinda school kid cheekiness? (IDK) Also I think the Q. might have been better asked if instead of saying "Billionaire Nerds" it should have been "Giga Chad Overlords" may have gotten an agreement. Although he is correct in the story telling since its not someone stating "We choose to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy but because they are hard." No one is doing that, so we get Gigga chads with resources to have really any "Vision" for them to make money and not for the group (a positive world vision). It sucks that most of the psy-ops from Social media work not just the commercial ones but the state funded ones and bad actors. That take the side of the little itch that we want a positive change or feeling but the Avg. person can feel they did something significant in liking and re-posting or commenting and have other people like and (bla bla bla) and that (I think, I am prob. wrong) the brain takes it as a positive step. Really only doing noting in the end because it stays in the digital macrocosm of anonymous analytics only to be run though a digestion of info laundering to be sold back to them in "better" ads. And now its just going to be eaten by the devourer of Data that is LLM's and maybe if "we" are lucky "AGI". Thats the Vision that is given to us since anything else is hard. This f*#$ing sucks and I wish that we could see it and change it but its better then war. *knocks on wood*

[ELMYAI]

Mustafa is a joke, and everyone in the AI community knows this; he has never actually built AI systems himself. He is a grifter. Please interview someone actually technically competent in the field.