Want More Power? (How to Respect Cycling Q-factor)

What is Q-factor for cycling, and what tools do you have at your disposal to get it right? That's what bike fitting expert Neill Stanbury will be explaining in this video. Ultimately, the more accurate your Q-factor is, the more power you will produce on a bike.

#cycling #bike #fitting

[ozzz]

Sssshhhh! Dont tell anybuddy-
Stance width seems to be one of the most problematic bike fitting issue of them all, but no bike fitter is dealing with it at all!
Had 2 bike fittings, complained about knee pains, but learned by my self what thereal problem is...
I need wider stance width.
Thanks for that video

[abedfo]

The VMO explanation @8:00 hits home for me, I always got super cramped quads after an hour when pushing hard. I'd never thought too much about it and just got on it with it. I bought some 16mm pedal extenders on a whim from ebay and my goodness what a change, comfort and power were up and VMO fatigue disappeared.

[XX-isps]

Brilliant video. I’m one of the “duck walkers” you mention but it wasn’t until this year after a lifetime of riding bikes that anyone actually told me about Q factor, it never seems to be mentioned in most bike fits and isn’t listed as a standard sizing/setup option when buying a bike. I needed pedal extenders and using them has been a game-changer for me, I now realise that foot pain on long rides isn’t just something that happens to everyone! I just thought it was normal like feet getting sore if you’re on your feet all day. But I can now ride for hours without my feet paining me at all 👍

[stephen_]

I remember when I got my first road bike, I spent ages trying to get bike fit sorted and the foot pain was agonising. Only when I compared the road bike and my mountain bike Q factor was it obvious there is a big difference in stance.
In the end I used 20mm spacer blocks and combined with mtb flat pedals and mtb shoes (don't like being clipped in) so my feet can move around a bit - problem solved.
Also means can put your feet in the centre of foot over axle position more easily than fiddling with shoes and cleats.
The wider Q factor made it so comfortable, solved the foot and knee pain problems instantly.
I wish this video was around back then, but thanks for making it, as I think there will be a few light bulb moments from the info given.

[edsassler]

This video should be mandatory viewing for bike fitters. The bike industry makes the sweeping generalization that everyone has the same stance width, you can buy different length cranks but not different widths. In anything other than cycling, hip impingement isn’t a problem because as soon as the foot leaves the ground there is freedom of movement. With cycling the crank goes up and down - it really is the hardest case. I’ve built fitting pedals with lateral strain gauges to better understand what’s happening with my clients.

[patrickparisienne]

Very clear and easy to interpret. Well done!

[gerlachsieders]

By the by, pedal extenders not only come in 20 or 27 mm, but also in 16 mm, I recently mounted these on my cranks. Thankfully, many of my issues seem to resolve, so kudos for this video!

[kevinsmellls]

This is literally the exact video I needed. Down to the 36in waist and all the issues you described. Got 20mm pedal extenders and my bike felt instantly better. Thanks so much!!

[northkyt]

I had knee pain for years despite several professional fits. Not one of the fitters even looked at knee tracking. I finally took my own video and discovered my knees make a V-shape at the top of the pedal stroke. I got 20mm pedal extenders, my knees tracked straight and the pain went away immediately. But pedal extenders have problems. They can break carbon cranks so they aren't recommended for those, and even some aluminum crank manufacturers won't warranty their cranks if you use pedal extenders.. So the cranks that can be used are very limited. Also, the extenders seem to loosen up regularly and it can be hard to make them tight enough to the crank arm and to the pedal. It makes another point of stress failure at the crank if they get even a little bit loose.

Ideally the pedal manufacturers would all make longer spindles for people who need them, which would be better than using extenders. I use TIME ATAC pedals and I sure wish I could get longer spindles for them. Does anyone know where I could get custom length spindles for TIME ATACs? I tried Speedplays for a year but I don't like that even a couple specs of dirt prevent me from getting clipped in. The ATACs feel fantastic, I just wish I could get longer spindles for them.

One more thought: the White Industries G30 gravel crank has a nice wide q-factor out of the box (171mm) but still has a standard road/gravel chainline. So, you don't have to use extenders with those. But currently there are no power meters available for it. I asked White to team up with a spider based power meter company, and I hope you all will ask them to also.

[woodmt.]

Thank you for always giving us the opportunity to listen to your valuable stories.

I have a strong toe out foot on my right side (about 30 degrees), so I use three 20mm pedal extenders attached(total 60mm). The cleats in SPD shoes don't rotate very large, so I cut and widen the slots to allow for a 30-degree cleat angle. However, my left foot is mildly toe out, so I was able to cope with a single 20mm pedal extender with a slight cleat rotation in the two slots of my SPD shoe.

If you really have legs like mine, you should probably put up with flat pedals, but I was encouraged by this video.

With three pedal extenders totaling 60mm, you have no choice but to ride at your own risk. I hope somewhere they will come out with a 60mm extender for one. Is it possible to extend the 20mm and 27mm exenders that you introduced by connecting them? I live in Japan, but if I have English language skills, money, and time, I would definitely like to visit a teacher.

[bareenlars]

This is just what i needed to hear! Been struggling aftet going from MTB to road (outside knee pain). And never had issue in the mtb world! So going to try wider q-factor this, thank you!

[DavidStacey-txon]

Scrolled to this video with Q factor in mind. Have been mtb alot lately, we know they have a wider q factkr than road. Mtb shoes are Giro Chamber 2 that have cleats about 5mm off centre which increases q factor. Wben riding everything feels great but after inner thigh/groin is tender. Measured both bikes, mtb q factor including shoes is about 18mm

[FlyingPastilla]

Update after 9 months: a wider stance worked for me

Original comment:
Happy to learn where the knee pain and the soreness of my abductors come from on my track bike.
I thought they were just hyperactive naturally as they've always been quite bulky in proportion to the rest of my leg but now I understand I need a wider stance !

[ploughmyfield]

I wish I lived close to Australia, but the UK is a bit far to come for a bike fit! Already I have learned through watching this excellent series of videos that I have one leg longer than the other by +15mm (confirmed by a physio) adding a shim under the right foot has been a game changer. I now have full leg engagement (both legs) in a peddle stroke, more power, no knee tracking, no discomfort from pressure on one side of my saddle. Amazing, thanks for the advice given in these videos it has transformed my cycling to +400kms in one ride and in complete comfort and greater power.

[onlyonecjb]

Another great video. Probably the best I have seen on Q- Factor.

[Gizmoimages]

I'm a former national level powerlifter and track rider. i discovered by accident that I needed a wider Q-factor. I wore out my bottom bracket and replaced the crank/bottom bracket, and was disappointed that the one I ordered had wider crank arms. I installed everything and took it for a ride and was instantly impressed. I felt like I could put power down better, and when standing I was torquing on the bars less. So then on my race bike I installed the Ultegra wider pedals with a washer that extends my stance a total of 10mm. I could probably go wider, but this setup is not bad for me.
I also ride my XC race bike, 29+ bike, and fatbike with no issues. I just needed a little wider stance on my roadbike.

[bryanstewart]

at 7 min 40 secs you perfectly describe the problem I have after longer rides ~ 100+km, I sometimes get cramps in those muscles you describe, I have room to go wider, will be giving it a go.

[danielbliss]

Great video and one bike fitters in general are in denial about. Worth pointing out; there's a serious shortage of Q-factor options for the road for more than 56mm pedal center-to-crank. The Shimano/Look road pedal center-to-crank standard is basically 52mm with some 53; Garmin and Favero power meter pedals can be set at 53 or 55, you can gain an extra 2 to 3mm on each side with a Shimano GRX crank and front derailleur (which can be combined with a longer pedal), SPD MTB pedals are 53 or 55, and coming in at 56 for the win is the Mark Cavendish-demanded long-axle Shimano SPD-SL. Then it's a big, big jump to the 64 or 65 of a Favero pedal axle for Shimano. And then in the low 70s we have a standard road pedal plus an extender, concerning to me in view of the Amazon reviews that discuss them breaking. In any case I just don't like doing things that only have a single vendor, so the Favero duo-Shi is out, and I'll probably do a 56mm pedal and see if I also end up needing to go GRX on the crankset. I've managed OK with 52 Dura-Ace, but it's clear from the fit done by my physiotherapist that I need wider; this kind of hinted at about 58-59 as being ideal.

[TheMerckxProject]

the chain stay on my oldest bike has a thumbnail-sized section of paint completely rubbed off from years of heel contact before I discovered pedal extenders. Oddly enough, I only need it for my right leg, which also has a slightly longer femur. I suspect the much more significant outward rotation of that foot and the cm in leg length difference are related. The extra 18-22mm of spindle has helped with both issues.

[yumyumhungry]

With drop bar mountain bikes like the salsa cutthroat it's easy to run into too wide Q factor issues since you are typically riding them for hundreds of miles like a road bike but the boost spacing being super wide.