The problem with the phrase 'There are no atheists in foxholes'

The problem with the phrase "There are no atheists in foxholes"

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There's a saying I've heard so often that it's practically a cliche by now: "There are no atheists in foxholes."

The idea is that if you're in the middle of a war, and you're in the trenches, then you're under so much stress, that you have to believe in God to protect you. Because no atheists would ever risk their lives like that.

It's a really nasty thing to say about atheists, and it's derogatory toward people of faith as well because it implies that faith and fear go together.

But look: A scared atheist is not a Christian.

It's also objectively untrue. There are atheists in the military. Pat Tillman was a former NFL player who lost his life in war -- he was an atheist.

Also in the military? Baseball legend Ted Williams, author Kurt Vonnegut, and founder of Humanistic Judaism Sherwin Wine. All non-religious. All veterans.

Hans Kasten is less well known, but he served in World War II and was the appointed by his peers to speak for thousands of prisoners of war. He himself was sentenced to die with the Jewish comrades that he refused to betray to the Nazis.

He was an atheist. You think he wasn't scared? I'm sure he was. But he was brave.

There are atheists who are willing to make a sacrifice for other people, even with the knowledge that there's no reward waiting for them in the afterlife. I'd say that makes them especially courageous.

It's been said before, but if you really believe there are no atheists in foxholes, that says less about atheists and more about foxholes -- that even in our military, you have to keep your godlessness under wraps because it could hurt your career advancement or cause your fellow soldiers to treat you differently.

By the way, according to official Department of Defense records gathered by MAAF, Evangelical Christians make up less than 20% of the military, but more than 60% of the chaplaincy.

There are chaplains for Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims... but the Navy has rejected a Humanist chaplain, presumably only because he doesn't believe in a god.

They've rejected him even though there are more atheists in the military than people from any non-Christian denomination, according to those same Defense Department records.

Many military leaders seem to have turned their backs on atheists in foxholes.

But yes, there are atheists in foxholes. There are also atheist police officers and fire-fighters. Anyone who says there aren't is ignoring the contributions of countless men and women willing to make that sacrifice.

Every now and then, you hear stories about people who didn't serve in the military but pretend to do so. We are rightfully upset and angry anytime that happens.

Well, I would argue that saying atheists don't serve could also be seen as an act of stolen valor. Don't take this away from them.

So remember that the next time you hear someone say it -- be outraged and let them know about it. Even if you're opposed to war and the military in general, I hope that's not a reason to let this awful cliche stand.

And if you are a foxhole atheist, thank you for your service, and I hope you're able to stand up and declare your non-belief the same way your religious peers do.

You've got support from the atheist community and from groups like MAAF.

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[tommylong]

"There are no atheists in foxholes" So if everybody was an atheist there would be no war?

[von]

I was in war... and also an Atheist. and reflecting back, If anything my experiences enforced my conclusion that there is No god.

[KCKatheist]

Thank you, Hemant, for addressing this 'oft uttered, more often demonstrably wrong phrase. My husband of >20 years is an atheist. He is also an SFC in the US Army, where he's served as a combat medic for the past 13 years. Although he'd already served 4 years at Ft Hood immediately after high school and had said he wasn't interested in a military career, the 9/11 attacks changed that.

D re-enlisted 2 wks to the day after the Twin Towers fell. He was deployed less than 1 year thereafter.

It's an exercise in irony; a religiously-motivated attack on American soil fiercely compelled an atheist man to put on the uniform [again], train to save the fallen [military or civilian; friend or foe], then summarily do so on the battle field. Such is genuine strength, valour, and honour.

[GodWorksOut]

In response to this, I told a theist that I was an atheist in a foxhole while I was in the military. The theist proceeded to tell me that there are no atheists on sinking ships -_-

[stiimuli]

There are no theists in hospital waiting rooms.

[Teebs]

It's a shame that Atheists had to fight in Iraq in Afghanistan. I'm not saying they weren't brave or don't deserve praise. It's just the war was so pointless and caused by religion. I'm French so I never get the military culture of the US. Though the people who are atheists serving should receive the praise they deserve rather than being shunned by Christians (and etc).

[tysond]

What the hell happened to the audio from 0:44 to 0:55?

[Godlessmom]

Perfect response to a hateful cliche... I cannot stand it when people say that.

[woogiemonster]

I was an atheist in a "foxhole" right up until the moment a sharpshooters bullet pierced my throat. And then I was an atheist on the ground, then an atheist in a medevac, atheist in rehab learning to walk again, and right now I'm an atheist eating snacks while I play on the internet. 

[SpaceMetalFerrari]

My cousin is an atheist in a foxhole... Never prayed.

[rickravenrumney]

I knew a lot of scared atheist when i was in the Military stuck in a Foxhole. they didn't pray. We talked; just to make a human connection because it may have been his last night alive. He was on my EOD Team. The next morning we had to get moving when i saw blood on his neck. A small bolt caught him in the neck when he sleeping and came out his eye. Married, kids, Good Guy, now he was dead. I know it wasn't his belief and i am Jewish but all I can hear him say was You finally cornered me buddy. No, I didn't corner him. I prayed more for me than for him, because that's the way he would have wanted it. I don't know where that came from.

[ZorcTheDarkOnex]

As someone who's served in the military, and someone who's a mormon from my perspective i don't go to war with god at my side or my book or mormon or bible, i go in with my weapon at my side and my unite on the other.

[KaeYoss]

How can you be a believer in a foxhole? You see death and destruction all around you, you see people having limbs blown off and worse. How does that compute? How does that work with the "god is a nice guy who will help you" thing?

And as some idiots say: "With eternal paradise, death is a good thing." If that is so, why is suicide anathema? Why is there a commandment that says "thou shalt not kill"? Why is there earth at all? Go directly to paradise. Don't pass birth, don't collect 70 years of life.

How could anyone not see that all the "suffer in this life for better treatment in the next" is just a ploy by the churches to make you into a obedient little sheep that will give its wool and flesh to its shepherd? Priests even mock you openly. They're called "pastor", meaning shepherd. Or they outright call themselves shepherd. And believers are their sheep. It couldn't be moreobvious if the holy symbol was not a cross, but a butcher's knife and a pair of shears.

[Laarye]

I was assisting during a 'hostage' situation and was told to keep an eye on a window because the guy inside had guns and I was directly in his line of fire, but my job was to keep the road block so civilians didn't move into said line of fire. My back was turned when they fired smoke, and as that order was given on a different channel, I did not hear it. I thought I heard 2 gun shots. As I jumped for cover behind my squad car, my first and only thought was "Today is the day I forget my f--king vest!" a couple minutes later it was "Oh sh-t, what about the baby!?". God never once popped up. Not even Thor or The Flying Purple Unicorn, which I would prefer over what I know of the christian god.

By the way, for those concerned, there was no baby. The ex-wife called in that her ex-husband had lots of guns and was holder her baby hostage. She failed to tell the operator that the 'baby' was a dog, and that the guy just locked her out of his house and was keeping 'his' dog.

[NavnikBHSilver]

An atheist doesn't pray because he's scared, an atheist prays because he doubts, and to humor himself.
Nothing wrong with it, if we weren't skeptical, we wouldn't be atheists in the first place, to doubt your atheism is equally fair to doubting religion. The difference of course being, that the conclusion is probably quite different.

[Gnomefro]

It's true that there are no atheists in foxholes. When I was in the army I always prayed to Osiris, just in case.


Much like there are no Christians in foxholes... my Christian friend always prayed to Odin to be on the safe side.

[grellsutcliff]

Some girl at my school
her: Uhh yea I don't believe in atheism
me: Oh well I'm sorry I didn't know i was some sort of mythical

[aimenfatima]

I know this a bit irrelevant, but I really appreciate you putting the entire contents of your videos in the description box. That way if I don't have a lot of time I can just skim through it so thanks!

[nickstoli]

It might be true. Fear makes people irrational. Doesn't mean God exists.

[mountaindoom]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.