Starship vs N1: Is Starship doomed to repeat history?

Has SpaceX fallen into a similarly flawed design that plagued the N1? Why did they choose so many engines? Will it continue to suffer a similar fate over and over like the N1 or is there something inherently different?

Today we’ll answer those questions and compare the two most powerful rockets ever made, from different sides of the world and from completely different eras to figure out how they’re similar and perhaps more importantly, how they’re different.

Music by Everyday Astronaut: "Trans-lunar Coast" and "CRYO" available wherever you stream

Additional Video Resources:

00:00 - Intro
01:50 - Starship VS N1
04:40 - Comparing engines
06:25 - Common philosophies
14:30 - Trial by flying
19:55 - Will starship repeat history?
26:20 - My opinion / Summary

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[snuffeldjuret]

rip all the people who said many engines = fail. Now we have two launches in a row with 33/33 engines running 100% of the time.

[ryansemplexyz]

It's beyond wild that this guy who I have been watching for almost a decade has gone from wearing a silly flight suit to getting fitted for a real space suit. No one on youtube deserves it more than you!

[ryanhamstra]

Who’s here after starship launched and had all 33 engines fire the entire burn??

[fakiirification]

Having just witnessed the 2nd IFT this morning. its safe to say that starship will not suffer the same fate and the N1.

[Hippida]

The one thing not mentioned in the video. There has been some development in the past 55 years in fields of metallurgy, and production technology. This imho with computers makes for a vast difference in the probability of success of Starship.
Since I had just the one thing to add, you obviously made a great piece comparing 2 of the craziest rockets ever made.
Thanks Tim

[kylesty]

Your thoughts on the Soviet program were extremely enlightening. Like many Americans, I thought the N1 was conceptually flawed, but now I agree with you that it is a pity the N1 rocket wasn’t allowed to fully mature.

[Parvenu]

This makes the Saturn 5 seem even more impressive from an engineering steandpoint. The fact that it was done in the 1960 is 🤯

[rlpederson]

Don't forget the vibration environments. Rocket motors make a lot of acoustic and structural vibration. Even today this is rather difficult to predict (probably the main reason SX flew was to capture these real environments to anchor their finite element models), but it was impossible to do back in the 1950's. Without understanding the physical vibration environment it is very hard to know if your components will not just shake apart.

[KnightRanger]

At this time SpaceX has eight Falcon 9 boosters which have launched more than ten times. The two oldest boosters have been expended after 11 and 14 flights. Two have reached the current limit of 15 launches and are awaiting to be certified to twenty. Two others were launched for the 14th time in May 2023 while the last two launched for the 11th time in May 2023.

[tedarcher]

N1 was a brutal tragedy. They had three improved rockets assembled, when management changed and he ordered all of them destroyed. Hopefully, they managed to save some engines, and they fly to this day on Zenit

[AminalCreacher]

One thing the N1 has over Starship is those beautiful lattice-like interstage trusses. So stylish!

[leatherboot]

IFT-3 was just launched today.
In less than a year starship has gone from failing to reach stage separation and suffering multiple engine failures on accent to being fully capable of orbit with no launch anomalies to speak of.
Granted there are still plenty of areas to improve in but If the launch today proved anything it’s that SpaceX and Starship have what it takes!
Rest in pieces Booster 10 and Ship 28🎉

[scottbruner]

I enjoy a bunch of different channels, but this is one of the few I actually look forward to.
Always excellent information presented in a fun and engaging manner.
Keep ‘em coming, Tim!

[petersmythe]

Wow it's kinda impressive they've only had two Merlin engine failures on ascent out of 228 launches with a total of 2052 engine-launches.

[HectorRoldan]

The more complex a system, the more points of failure that can lead to disaster. I'm amazed the N1 was able to accomplish so much. I was remembering the N1 while it was going up and once Starship went into the spin after a few engines either didn't fire or flickered out, it was a good thing that the difference in fuel and build allowed the Starship to stay together for so long and maybe not as much damage after it went boom. That poor launch pad.. {Just made it to 7:30 and nice to hear similar thoughts}

[stanwatkins]

After Starship flight 4, this video definitely needs to be updated.

[isaacgrosof]

I just realized: If all goes well, Tim will literally become an everyday astronaut - he's going to actually fly in space, an everyday person actually flying in space. It's incredible!

[ericbainter]

The Starship booster has a massive requirement not levied on N1, Saturn V, or SLS: using the same engines to return to earth while maintaining a high degree and range of thrust control.

It is my understanding that engines must be run at certain levels of energy to avoid combustion issues, thus larger engines cannot be throttled back to a low enough thrust level to allow the gentle hover into the chopsticks (or landing legs). Smaller engines must maintain certain levels of thrust in order to run reliably, but since there are many of them you can shut down most of them and run only the ones you need to produce a lower amount of thrust, which can be then run within their optimal combustion parameters.

You could use a few big engines for launch and stuff smaller engines in around them for landing, but then you’re hauling around dead weight in both directions, you now have the complication of multiple types of engines with different types of plumbing and controls …and you still have several engines to coordinate. Having more smaller nearly identical engines that can that can be scaled in both number and thrust to the power requirements on over the entire range of the booster’s flight probably is the most sensible strategy. Not to mention the economic benefit.

[brianknow]

I am back today rewatching this video after watching IFT4. Let me tell you guys from the past ift 4 was something else.

[frisk]

Tim, you've seriously earned your ride into space and a WHOLE lot of our appreciation for not just your knowledge but how you can spell it out in a way even those who are new to spaceflight (etc) can understand.