221 ‒ Understanding sleep and how to improve it

In this special episode of The Drive, we have pulled together a variety of clips from previous podcasts with sleep expert Dr. Matthew Walker to help listeners understand this topic more deeply, as well as to identify which previous episodes featuring Matt may be of interest.  In this episode, Matt gives an overview of why we sleep, the stages of sleep, and sleep chronotypes, and he provides tips to those looking to improve their total sleep and sleep efficiency. Additionally, Matt discusses the pros and cons of napping, and gives his current thinking on the effects of blue light and caffeine on sleep. Finally, Matt explains the dangers of sleeping pills and reveals what he believes are the most useful alternatives for someone struggling with sleep, such as those with insomnia.

We discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:02:19 - Evolutionary reasons to sleep
0:10:05 - Stages of sleep, sleep cycles, and brainwaves
0:25:42 - Understanding sleep chronotypes and how knowing yours could help you
0:36:25 - Defining sleep efficiency and how to improve it
0:38:45 - Correcting insomnia: a counterintuitive approach
0:41:38 - Pros and cons of napping, and insights from the sleep habits of hunter-gatherer tribes
0:50:17 - Sleep hygiene, wind-down routine, and tips for better sleep
0:59:32 - The optimal room temperature and body temperature for the best sleep
1:08:32 - Blue light: how Matt shifted his thinking
1:14:54 - Caffeine: how Matt has adjusted his hypothesis
1:19:52 - The dangers of sleeping pills, useful alternatives, and cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia

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About:

The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 45 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.

Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they have, and they should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I take conflicts of interest very seriously. For all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise, please visit my website where I keep an up-to-date and active list of such companies.

[kst]

Excellent format - especially with the world’s very best like Matt Walker whose experience and knowledge is so well communicated. Thank you for putting it together & sharing, it’s sincerely appreciated. :)

[martinscian]

Thank you very much for all the amazing work of both of you, one more time. I’ve read Matt’s book and changed a lot of my life. Looking forward for Attia’s book!!!

[neocoach]

I am enjoying the content with Matt Walker.

[mares]

Thank you! This made the difference for me. I'm all into sleep thanks to this conversation.

[novemburful]

Thanks Peter. I really enjoyed this episode. I find lots of useful information without going back to all the episodes. More episodes like this would be greatly appreciated. On a different note, I have had insomnia all my life, even when I was a baby (according to my elder sister). I wish there are more information on the genetic basis of various sleeping disorders.

[RaffiTheQuokka]

As much as I enjoy these talks with Matt Walker, I'd really appreciate sleep content with other experts in the field

[carolr.]

I need serious help with sleep..I must get this right! Thank God for this information!

[TumbleSensei]

You should talk about how a lack of liver and muscle glycogen triggers glucagon and cortisol to keep you awake

[timbob]

Now if only I'd watch videos like this at a time when I shouldn't be sleeping.

[KJSvitko]

The Oura ring and the Apple watch both have good sleep trackers.

[ayy]

None of the people in sleep videos / podcasts talk enough about what we can do to increase slow wave sleep.
Just the same stuff about sleep onset / staying asleep which doesn't matter much if SWS is missing,
It's so under-researched considering the importance of it. look what lack of it does to narcoleptics & people with depression.
and there's just a handful of stuff that has significance to fix this, inaccessible behind a wall of doctors?

[brandonpeterson]

For the record, I love this concept and would love to see more. I’ve been on the fence about membership in the past, this is Both a good way to whet my appetite but also to make me more heavily consider.

[marywesterbeke]

I am curious about the subject of taking exogenous melatonin for sleep. I reviewed the playlist regarding sleep and didn’t see any titles that indicated this has been discussed previously. I would greatly appreciate this in a future episode.

[allen]

where do you find the link to the cbti therapist from american academy of sleep? I'd really like to look into that. Thanks for the great show as always.

[Socalarborist]

Getting up early and walking as the sun rises has really helped, as well as getting off all screens and social media earlier in the day and limiting my caffeine intake later in the day.

[mac]

Over the past twenty years my sleep cycle underwent its own 'evolution' and left me out of the decision-making process. By 8:00 PM, every day, I no longer function and fall asleep within minutes after lying down. Between 2:30 and 3:00 AM, without an alarm, I'm wide awake and ready to get rolling. In fact, I look forward to the first four hours of quiet and use that early morning 'brain fuel' to be more productive. For some time, I've thought I must be getting quality REM sleep and don't need eight hours. However, based on what you're saying, I'm actually losing a large percentage of needed REM sleep since I never go beyond 3:00 AM and usually getting only 6 1/2 - 6 hours per night. Reason for concern? [4:45 AM EST]

[Dana_Swan_]

Dr. Attia, What are your thoughts on Cancer Diseases being caused by the Immune System NOT DOING IT'S JOB OF KILLING THE CANCER CELLS.. because of chronic Inflammation ...

[orbifold]

Is there any benefit of intermittent sleeping? I spent almost one whole night running, didn't sleep well the next night due to caffeine overload, but the second night I slept like never before, even had some great dreams.

[rubensonorio]

By my own experience I think there is a compensation for lack of sleep or the nights you don't sleep so well😴😇

[wavesnowaves]

I think that these social media and connected days, we are just continually bombarded with mental stimulus and input, which our brains just can’t handle over a certain amount. We are exposed to so much information, that we really shouldn’t know about.