Is Salvation by Faith Actually Salvation by Works?

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[gregorycocco]

I like to think of it as a person drowning and someone saving him. You would never say I saved myself by grabbing the hand of the one who saved me.

[dougbaker]

Absolutely right on the money! Accepting a gift does not mean you have worked for it or have earned it.

[warmachine]

James clears up every misconception here for us when he says "faith without works is dead". Salvation is ultimately through faith, but if one is not drawn to good works and producing good fruit for the kingdom, then one has no true faith at all. Faith and works are so tightly intertwined and co-mingled throughout the New Testament that they are almost synonymous

[KenAmmi-Shalom]

"Is Salvation by Faith Actually Salvation by Works?" is a faulty premise since salvation is not by faith, it's by grace though faith.

[samuelcallai]

I think that accepting, maintaining and persevering in faith is, by logic, a work. It's your responsibility, even though you can only do that with God's help. But it's your responsibility and, therefore, your merit. Paul was condemning works alone, which would imply that Jesus's grace wasn't necessary

[japexican]

Is faith a work?

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For those who think x amount of work is required to gain salvation


•what is the criteria for salvation ?

•How much works does each individual provide for their own salvation?

•is it 1x worth of works for everyone?
or
does God pick and choose how much x amount of work one needs before he wil grant them salvation?

Also what leads you to “know” you’ve done the amount of works God requires for you to be saved, and also are you saved, if not now, then when?

[GalaxiaTokyo]

If true faith necessarily turns into good works by the power of the Holy Spirit, then I think the distinction between salvation by faith and salvation by "works" (or faith plus works, as Catholics put it) is rather linguistic and ambiguous by nature.

[bluefish]

So Paul's epistles are inspired by God, but James's isn't. Got it

[ramezaziz]

The problem here is that people make the false equivocation between works as a necessary condition and works as a merit for salvation. No Christian believes in a doctrine that says: do this amount of work and you've earned your salvation. Attacking this position is attacking a straw man. The book in the Bible that emphasizes salvation by grace through faith the most is St Paul's epistle to the Romans. In this same epistle he dedicated four chapters (12-15) to talk about works, Christian conduct and behaviour and the importance thereof.
Christians who insist on works in the context of salvation argue that while works (no matter how much) don't earn you salvation, not doing them disqualifies you from receiving it. This makes perfect Biblical sense because Jesus talks about non fruit bearing branches being thrown in the fire all the time. You could argue that works are the natural Co sequence of true faith. Well, not necessarily. I can have perfect intellectual faith in Jesus but resist the Holy Spirit inside me when He moves me to serve my neighbour. Or repent from a sin I particularly like. Or witness where witnessing might get my account suspended.
Believing that not doing works, where you are able to but not willing, gets in the way of receiving your free gift of salvation is not the same as believing that your works make you entitled or worthy of salvation. There is no excuse for a thinking man to confuse the two.

[miakayuki]

I feel it makes sense more to me that we need to be holy to be enter the kingdom of God. It doesnt make sense to me that just because you believe and repent you'll be accepted. Yes I wish it true but what makes me think is that people will keep sinning everyday then ask for forgiveness everyday.
And people will think that they will sin but they will just ask for forgiveness and it's ok? they sin the day and ask for forgiveness at night. It's a repeated cycle.
I feel that if that's the case it's okay to sin since I will be forgiven if I ask? I feel like disrespecting God. And people saying that there is no perfect and that thought makes me think Its okay to sin because everybody does. It's not possible to be holy so im just give up trying to be.
Its confusing me, I feel like being holy is the answer to be enter kingdom of God.yes it will be hard atleast that's the correct mindset we should strive to be holy and like God. That's what Gods want.
We shouldn't abuse his grace. We should do our best to be holy shouldn't have an intention of sinning. Ask for forgiveness if sin but it should be unintentional sin.

[davidfwtemp]

I agree, but who's saying that salvation by faith is salvation by works? I've never heard anyone make that argument.

[MechaWingZero]

Romans 4:5 seems to completely differentiate believing (faith) and works, putting them in two different categories.

[unburningflame]

Legalists have to have something for their suffering. They're tired of church and being good all the time so they go around self righteously trying to convict others with false doctrine.

Jesus made it easy because he did it all, guys. And you should be humbled every day you even were given that measure of faith to believe in him to be saved. No one asked you to take on more yoke than you could handle. You are still a sinner. You need to realize that. We come to repentance daily. We are renewed daily. Your works are like filthy rags before him.

All glory is given unto God. All crowns will be cast before him. He alone is worthy.

[chuckm]

There is no verse in the New Testament that says to put your faith in Christ. It does say to walk out of faith, the obedience of faith, and to be justified by faith, etc

[twincitydezray]

Dr Craig, can you be a believer who habitually and intentionally sins? (I'm genuinely asking, and not trying to challenge the message on the video.)

[dcouric]

But why at the end of the process would one accede to drawing grace and another resist it? That would mean the grace is necessary but not sufficient. What if the grace is both necessary and sufficient? Then it’s still resistable, and indeed resisted, but not ultimately because grace overcomes the resistance. In other words, grace greater than all my sin wins!

[RonyMattar]

How come? The Bible is full of passages about works. And it is not logic just to accept Christ but not doing anything in your life to apply your faith. Why do you preach then. Preaching is a work that completes your faith. Serving others with love is a work that completes your faith.

[GraftedOliveBranch]

Messianic prophecies fulfilled Christ...

Genesis 3:15 ~ "Born of the seed of a woman".
~ Galatians

Genesis 12:2-3 ~ "Born of the seed of Abraham".
~ Matthew

Genesis 17:19 ~ "Born of the seed of Isaac".
~ Matthew

Numbers 24:17 ~ "Born of the seed of Jacob".
~ Matthew

Genesis 49:10 ~ "Descended from the tribe of Judah".
~ Luke

Isaiah 9:7 ~ "Heir to the throne of David"
~ Luke

Daniel 9:25 ~ "Time for Jesus' birth".
~ Luke

Isaiah 7:14 ~ "Born of a virgin".
~ Luke 1:26-27, 30-31

Micah 5:2 ~ "Born in Bethlehem".
~ Luke 2:4-7

Jeremiah 31:15 ~ "Slaughter of the innocents".
~ Matthew 2:16-18

Hosea 11:1 ~ "Flight to Egypt".
~ Matthew 2:14-15

Isaiah 40:3-5, Malachi 3:1 ~ "Proceeded by forerunner".
~ Luke 7:24, 27

Psalm 2:7 ~ "Declared the Son of God".
~ Matthew 3:16-17

Isaiah 9:1-2 ~ "Galilean ministry".
Matthew ~ 4:13-17

Deuteronomy 18:15 ~ "The prophet to come".
~ Acts 3:30, 22

Isaiah 61:1-2 ~ "Came to heal the brokenhearted".
~ Luke 4:18-19

Isaiah 53:3 ~ "Rejected by his own people (the Jews).
~ John 1:11

Psalm 110:4 ~ "A priest after the order of Melchizedek".
~ Hebrews 5:5-6

Zechariah 9:9 ~ "Triumphal entry"
~ Mark 11:7, 9, 11

Psalm 41:9 ~
"Betrayed by a friend".
~ Luke 22:47-48

Zechariah 11:12-13 ~ "sold for thirty pieces of silver".
~ Matthew 26:15; 27:5-7

Psalm 35:11 ~ "Accused by false witness".
~ Mark 14:57-58

Isaiah 53:7 ~ "Silent to accusations".
~ Mark 15:4-5

Isaiah 50:6 ~ "Spat upon and smitten".
~ Matthew 26:67

Psalm 35:19 ~ Hated without reason".
~ John 15:24-25

Isaiah 53:5 ~ "Vicarious sacrifice".
~ Romans 5:6, 8

Isaiah 53:12 ~ "Crucified with transgressors".
~ Mark 15:27-28

Zechariah 12:10 ~ "Body pierced".
~ John 20:27

Psalm 22:7-8 ~ "Scorned and mocked"
~ Luke 23:35-36

Psalm 69:21 ~ "Given vinegar and Gall".
~ Matthew 27:34

Psalm 109:4 ~ "Prayer for his enemies".
~ Luke 23:34

Psalm 22:18 ~ "Soldiers gambled for his coat".
~ Matthew 27:35

Psalm 34:20 ~
"No bones broken".
~ John 19:32-33, 36

Zechariah 12:10 ~
"Side pierced".
~ John 19:34

Isaiah 53:9 ~
"Buried with the rich".
~ Matthew 27:57-60

Psalm 16:10; 49:15 ~ "Would rise from the dead". ~ Mark 16:6-7

Psalm 68:18 ~ "Would ascend to Gods right hand". ~ Mark 16:19...

[bobblacka]

Except Jesus specifically says this: Unless you do these things, which he lists, you will not get eternal life. If you ignore that, you are ignoring Jesus. The words of Paul do not take priority over the commands of Jesus.

[runewolf]

Jesus said God judges the heart not the works. Just read what Jesus says. He covers everything just look!