#TTRPG Review - Pathfinder 2e, just in time to be obsolete

This one feels like a bit of a mistake on Paizo's part.

Please like, subscribe and help grow the channel by recommending videos you like (or dislike) to your friends.

If it's not Teknoaxe, it's probably Bass Rebels, here on Youtube.

"See... I can get you what you want, I can. I can get you anything, you just have to talk to me, you have to trust me. You can trust me, 'cause I'm your priest, I'm your shrink... I am your main connection to the switchboard of the soul. I'm the magic man... Santa Claus of the subconscious. You say it, you think it, you can have it."
- Lenny Nero, Strange Days

[etherprime]

Couldn't disagree with you more on this one. Much love for this series though.

[szegediadam]

Who's pf2 for?

It's for the character minded: if you like to build a character, and not just before the game, but while playing too, you can make interesting unique characters, and with a pathbuilder 2e app, building a character takes only 5 minutes.

It's for those who like tactical gaming you can have your combo-s tactics but you can't brake the game, so the combat remain challanging where you actually need to think a little.

It's for those who like cooperative gaming: if you just want to grab a sword and fuck shit up alone this is not your game. Pathfinder 2e builds on cooperative gaming. It's way easier to debuff enemies, or buff other party members than buffing yourself.

It's for those who like high level gaming: it actually exist because of the tight math, and because players can't brake it, high level game is exist, and it doesn't need more preparation then a lowlevel encounter.
Also because with the higher number, not just the "roll to hit" and the ac scales, but the damage too, the fights remain the same long turnwise just as the lowlevel ones.

It's for GMs: it's way easier to run a pf2 game than even a 5e. The rules support the GM, so they can make it fun for everyone.
Also there are existing sub systems for many classic instances, like chasing, researching, influencing, etc, so if a gm don't want to be a gamedesigner they can have something to use for those instances.

It's for those who like immersive well written fantasy worlds: if someone actually care about lore, they can go deep here. Golarion is massive, and all it's places are unique designed for different ambience and playstyle.
Also, the APs write the history of the world, so it's easy to be part of it.
Also there are many archetype's feats and other character options which has some regional or other in world requirement so even your character options help you become the part of this world.

[gordonpfeil]

Long-time subscriber and I always look forward to your videos. I'm actually a fan of Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5e and I do have to disagree when PF2e is depicted as being so much more complicated.

From a page-count perspective, the PF2e Core Rulebook is 638 pages long but it contains everything that you find in the 5e PHB and DMG (which together are almost exactly the same length at 634 pages). The actual rules for playing PF2e are covered at the beginning of Chapter 7 (Spells), and Chapter 9 (Playing the Game) with a total page count of 49. The 5e PHB takes 32 pages to cover the same scope. A little more concise but not grossly so.

The feat, skill, and spell options that comprise a significant portion of the PF2e core book's total length provide many more options for character customization than found in 5e. This allows PCs to fill a unique niche within the adventure and ensures that each character is mechanically distinct from the others. I personally enjoy having multiple interesting options to choose from at each level of character progression and I have never found the PF2e system to be cumbersome or confusing.

In play, the PF2e action economy makes each round flow smoothly and the effective scaling of skills and abilities ensures manageable and effective play even at high experience tiers.

I have no insider information on Paizo's profitability but the company's aggressive release schedule of new products, their extremely active organized play program, the well-attended annual virtual convention, and the upcoming remaster of the core rules seem to indicate that PF2e has been and continues to be a successful product line for them.

[flameloude]

I have so many criticism as you talk that I decided to reply as the video went along.

1:13 "it(the core rule book) lack certain things you might find in 5e player's guide" like what? You also say you need other material needed to run the game but don't say what any of those are. You kind of just move on from this point with out any extrapolation.

I have yet to ever hear the core rule book lacking anything one might need to run the game outside of the bestiary, but that's not in 5e's player's guide either. So I once again ask what?

4:01: pathfinder 2e is pathfinder's fourth edition. No just no. Considering the favorability of 2r I wouldn't say it's anywhere near disastrous as 4e. In fact it's quite the opposite being quite successful with little backlash unlike 4e.

4:10 this whole bit is about how 2e isn't compatible to 1e or 3.5. I honestly don't understand this criticism considering this is how changing editions work in ttrpgs as far as I'm aware.

5:13 obvious step to have taken was to create a 5th edition retro clone like the did for 3.5 with pf1e. okay last bit of this diatribe I wanted to address. Gods no I and many others don't even like 5e's base system. I don't think pf2e being 5e+ would have came off so well. And like you mentioned there's many others already patching the unbalanced hell.

7:27 feats comes from your ancestry, class, and skills/general feat. A majority comes from you class and skill feats with your ancestry coming up every four levels. Just wanted to correct this bit.

8:36 here you say feats are a bit less useful when it comes to playability. But how!? You don't explain your views, just say it and move on. Like how can you criticized something but not offer your view on it? I strongly disagree to this considering how feats play into the tactical nature of pf2e's combat and helps flesh out your character out of combat as well, but I can't rebuke your statement because that's all it is. A statement with no substance.

9:25 you say the characters have additional complications but once again don't extrapolate your point. Is it because of the feats? Or all the new actions the characters can do through their skills? Like you can't keep throwing out critiques and not explaining why you think that way.

19:00 golarion is suffering from certain political decisions and hampering creativity. Sorry what!? Like what? Every time. You tend to say something then move on with out much detail leaving me confused as hell to why you think that way.

Golarion is a rich world of lore that's is behind dug into with every lore book that comes out. It's also a catch all setting with a general medevial fantasy setting but with parts that are weird west, scify, or eastern fantasy

19:25 honestly the crafting system isn't the best. Takes a bit too long and comes with no real benefits

21:53 I'm not necessarily sure what you are trying to say here. But would like to point out that the traits are an important system of the game play

[UrbanVerse]

My group switched (mostly) to Pathfinder 2e back in March; I've been running Abomination Vaults and playing in Age of Ashes, and this game is definitely a greatly different beast than 5e, and that's a good thing. Aside from one player who is stuck to 5e like a tick, everyone has been having a great experience with the game. The combats are a lot more exciting since you have to actually think about what you're doing instead of running up and bashing the monster until it stops moving. Perhaps not coincidentally, the player who is stuck to 5e tends to play horribly in PF2e because he's still relying on 5e style tactics. Even a moderate rated encounter, with a smart and dangerous monster, wound up killing said player in my last game, and had the party worrying about a possible TPK.

That being said, the Core rulebook is pretty rough to get through. I gave it a read before we started playing, but since tend to rely on Archives of Nethys, which has all the rules easily searchable online for free (none of the setting lore, just the rules). The game was designed by a programmer, so your mention of it making a good computer game is accurate; that's how they wanted the math (and that math is VERY tight; so many times I've seen things succeed or fail just by a +1 modifier). The 3-Action economy in the game feels awesome, and I've been looking into developing a homebrew game that sort of meshes PF2e ideas with the Star Wars Saga Edition feel, which shares a lot of elements (given that it was a 4e precursor).

The character sheets are probably my least favorite aspect of the game thus far; you literally have so much to put down on them, you absolutely need another way to reference the rules for your abilities. This gets even worse if you use the optional Free Archetype and/or Dual Class options. I would say that Pathbuilder is a necessity for playing the game, and very much worth paying for the app so that you can keep your sheet digitally and quickly reference what a feat/ability does just by clicking on it. I'm still not entirely behind the digital character sheet thing, but with this game, I'm making an exception (have been playing TTRPGs since the late 90s, so I like my physical sheets), and keeping myself much more sane because of it.

[SoulPotion]

I see this video as a 3rd edition D&D fan's view of PF2 and later editions of D&D. I don't agree, but I respect the initiative

[ColdNapalm]

Okay, saying this is a market flop like 4E is being completely disingenuous as it's already a market success even before the OGL windfall.

[mynamehere]

I know you said in your 5e games your players don’t take feats, but I think that’s just your table. Nearly all the discourse I’ve seen and played in 5e campaigns have used feats. So the unique feats in P2 as opposed to the generic droll of 5e was so amazing. 5e will always be cookie cutter, cus there’s only so many ways you can play a character since you don’t get many customized options

[Trithis]

This review basically boils down to, "This game is a different game and is therefore bad, " and several things you say are just flat out wrong.
• You start off by saying that you can play D&D with a single book but not PF2e, but you can literally play PF2e without _any_ books; all of the mechanics are officially available for free online. I know you try to skirt past this by saying you're reviewing the book and "not a whole bunch of other things" but you titled this and present it as a review of the system, not the core book itself.
• Did you really call using the word "Ancestry" rather than "Race" pandering?
• "The game rules are largely familiar[...]" familiar to what? 5e? You didn't even address the 3 action economy which is, arguably, the largest difference Pf2e has to something like 5e.
• I have no clue what you mean when saying you can't copy it onto your character sheet as well, they quite literally give you space for the extra bits you pointed out as good.


No clue why Youtube suggested this video to me, but after watching it, I fear this video is going to end up in leagues with Taking20's "I'm Quitting Pathfinder 2e Because of This Issue" video. 😬

[OtandaGaming]

I’m very confused because you said, “There are key things missing.” Implying that the 5e player’s guide could be your sole source of information of play and the Pathfinder CRB can’t do that which is just factually wrong

[hermesalexandria]

Listening to you review stuff you don’t like is getting depressing. Could you review something you’d actually play? Maybe even your own stuff and tell us why you like it?

[notatemplar]

Why would anyone want pf2e to be more like D&D 5e? One of the main draws of Pathfinder to those not coming from 3.5 is character creation, and 5e sadly has pitiful levels of customisation.

[alanthomasgramont]

You take is probably as wrong as it can be. First of all, 2nd edition is very successful. Its just that D&D has grown its market share considerably to eclipse all other games. This is largely due to the ease of the game, but also Critical Role, Stranger Things and nostalgia for the brand. Pathfinder 2e is much more akin to D&D 4th edition in how its characters, powers and healing are laid out. Its a game of balanced game play. 5th edition currently panders to players far too much, creating a game that is almost impossible to DM beyond 10th level (mostly due to multi-classing hacks and feats, which nearly everyone uses.. sorry, you're dead wrong on that). This is why OneDnD is focusing so hard on removing DMs all together in favor of their VTT and it will be successful. Relatively speaking, no one wants to DM 5e because players are gods at 5th level. Just about any story you want to tell gets thwarted by player powers. A VTT is easier to control players because you just won't be able to open the door unless you put the right gem in the right hole, etc, like all other video games. OneDnD is also removing a lot of the hacks, such as powers based on proficiency bonus or character level becoming class level based, so taking one level in a dip doesn't early you the best parts of a class that also grows with your character. Either you've barely played Pathfinder or simply have an emotional aversion to it. Pathfinder is for people who like challenging adventures where the party needs to work together. D&D is for casual players who want characters who can basically solo the adventure on their own. I like D&D for what it is, but that doesn't diminish how good Pathfinder is.

[marioevildm]

IMHO you are spot on, I give PF2e to a friend of mine who love roll-master, so he of course fell in love with PF2e. for me, its over-complicated for nothings. Hey, I love ShadowDark which is at the opposed spectrum 😉 for me simplicity is always better, but for some they need rules for everything that is good for them. 💜💜

[feralgamersincrpg]

The halfling looks like Tyrian Lannister from GoT

[JacketVEVO]

I feel the same way you do about it. i think Paizo are motivated by fear of WOTC's litigation, considering the OGL cases which have been pursued by them. However, that just means the reason why I played PF 1e is no longer present, which means I am no longer interested. I hope people are having fun with this but it's an entirely different thing than what used to draw people in to the game.

[Zotob]

I'm curious.
You don't like pbta (me neither).
You don't like pathfinder 2e.
Can I know what is your favourite system or at least the one you use as baseline to build up your Frankenstein?

[ollywright]

Who is it for? It's for Pathfinder 1e players - paizo wants them to upgrade. And lately it's been for some of the disaffected 5e players who are fed up with WotC. Paizo have reported their best sales ever, so it's working for them.

[saintjst]

The original Pathfinder filled a large gap in the industry after 4th edition D&D was released. I don't think Paizo will ever reach that level of relevance again.

[jeremystyles]

Pathfinder is complicated - definitely not for OSR fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants types.
I bought all the early releases of PF 2E and really enjoyed it, but my playing group migrating from PF 1E didn't, so we stopped.
I've since moved back to OSR (Labyrinth Lord and 2E AD&D mostly, some Swords & Wizardry) because of time constraints and sick of the "modern" crunch, but have now found campaigns are lucky to last 6+ months due to too many PC deaths (and the odd TPK).
Cheers!