World of Warships- Are CVs Really THAT Overpowered?

Hey guys, today I discuss a very...sensitive topic in the game. have fun in the comments, enjoy!

Music: Stranger Think- C418

[RobsGaminworld]

My biggest issue with CVs is the Rocket Attack Planes. A skilled player can avoid/minimize the damage from torpedo and dive bombers but the only way to avoid the rockets is if the CV potatoes the shot. The worst part is that they do 8k to 10k damage whilst being accurate, because of this it completely nullifies DD's and the roles they're meant to play.

[jabo]

Any argument you may have ends when is the only ship that can get to the last 5 min of any map in 1v1 or even 1v2 and win the game, he can burn you, he can reset the caps without getting spotted, he can flood you, he can cit you, he can spot you from the other side of the map, you name it. And you can't do shit to him except to look to the sky or to the sea while you are slowly dying.

[KingGoro]

The single biggest issue with carriers is simple. It 100% changes how everyone plays. DD's become almost useless, cruisers without god AA can and will be attack, bb's only hope is there health pool but if are constantly detected by a cv player, will get focused fired and burned to a crisp. The only way I see this working is bring back how it was before. Before a CV player could directly attack and kill the enemy CV player if they were good enough. That's exactly what happened in actual naval warfare. American and Japanese carriers were hunting the fleet but mostly focusing on finding and sinking the carriers. That isn't an option in the game now.

[reyhan]

"carriers aren't as bad as people make it to be"
The 3 CVs in T4 would like to know your location

[reinhardofavercland]

OP? Not really. RTS Saipan was an auto win ship back then.
Game changing? Yes. But only under certain conditions.

You could carry the team with the RTS CVs, except if the enemy had Saipan while you didn't. And it didn't really help either when strong AA was exclusively reserved for American ships only while the Japanese were entirely known to have trash AA. Sure, CV planes were actually limited. But that caused a massive skill gap between the expert & the average (and less) CV players. And I have yet to mention the amount of squadrons that can be deployed at a time. The higher the tier was, the more squadrons that could be deployed. Couple that with one's ability to multitask to determine one's expertise on CVs, and you could see either a flying kraken or a drunken seagull. Lastly, fighter strafing was the icing on the cake on how decisive the difference between the CV players were.

Nowadays you could only hit one target at a time. Sure you have literally "unlimited" planes. But there is a thing called plane restoration time, which varies differently among CVs. Strong AA is no longer an American-only thing.

Sure the CV vs DD interaction is still a huge issue. But I'll bet $10 it was way worse during the RTS era. The last few weeks before CV rework saw a massive increase of CV games beyond T7 (which barely had any prior to that). And there were tons of complaints on the forum about the sudden increase.

[iiagdtr]

As a newer player and BB guy, I haven't had as much trouble with upper tier carriers where I have decent AA compared to lower tiers where 3 CVs are common with sometimes 6 ships per side. Oh joy and happiness.

[martinpalmer]

Overall the #1 issue is the ZERO RISK spotting and scouting, combimed with minimal risk, anywhere on the map, damage dealing.
They can put a 100% shutdown on virtually all DDs in the game with very few exceptions.

DDs who are spotting have to put themselves at some risk to do so, there are *plenty* of counters to DDs, besides other DDs, you have cruisers and BBs that are faster than some DDs, and of course Radar on several ships, RPF and long range torps from cruisers as well as Hydro.

DDs just dont need another counter, especially one which there is zero defence against for most dd classes and can take 50-100% of your health with a single strike.
As a CV, even uptiered, you literally have a hard time to deplete sqaudrons enough that you cant perma spot DD until its dead and completely prevent a DD from doing any of its roles.

I like the idea of some sort of delay before ships spotted by planes are visible to enemy team ships, in the same way Radar works now, but possibly even a bigger time delay of 30 seconds before you get rendered. The The on demand, be anywhere on the map, unlimited range Damage CVs can dish out by itself is painful enough... the spotting factor really makes it TOO good.

Maybe they should implement "fuel" on planes in the form of a 75 second timer .

[EstellammaSS]

My suggestions:
1.ships spotted by aircrafts only shows on the minimap for other players. Only dedicated spotter planes reveals target.
2.Let you customize your own carrier and how many squad of each plane you want to bring(limited capacity).
3.Borrow from battle station pacific and let the player switch freely between RTS and direct control.
4.Borrow the altitude control from navyfield and add a set of semi-manual AA that is lethal but hard to use.
5.Aircrafts now have fueling/arming time before launch(per plane). Increase damage for all aircraft armaments to more represent their warhead size.
6.Aerial torpedos are supposed to be dropped from more than a kilometer away, keep it that way, make close range auto AA shred stuff at low altitude. Long distance drop gives enough time to maneuver and massive spread, bringing back pincer attacks and skill in dropping.
7. Air attack siren.
8. If you lose all of your planes, get good.

CV now attacks less often but more lethal, the receiving end gets advanced warning to form a AA formation and chances to dodge aerial torpedos. A single scout plane shouldn’t be hard to shoot down, only being on the map would help with survivability.

[timash]

I think overall carries are manageable, with one caveat: dds that are actually trying to play the objectives. DDs i feel have very little counterplays for a carrier that wants to kill them while still contributing to capping and spotting.

[VuHien]

The question is NOT whether CVs are OP or not (although it is unacceptable that a T10 CV can do 10K damage to a ship with rocket planes that do not need any skill to land the rockets on target). The question is about about whether the CVs spoil the game and they do. The whole game is about deploying one team versus the other, about playing with your concealment to sneak into the enemy territory, balancing the weakness of a ship armor with better concealment, about flanking the enemy team in order to have their broadside...All of that are ruined with CVs. French BBs have small caliber guns that they are designed to compensate with great mobility to get the flank of the enemy team and shoot at their broadside. But by going to the flank of the enemy team, they become the target of choice of CVs because they are isolated from their team. So, if a French BB cannot over match with their small guns and they cannot be on the flank of the enemy team because they would be targeted by the CV, what are they supposed to do? If a ship has bad armor and is using its great concealment as a compensation for its bad armor but then CV keeps it spotted, what good is it to have great concealment?

[AllAhabNoMoby]

I don't know that many people are saying they're OP. Many people ARE saying there's really no counter to CV's, and I agree. You just kinda have to take it, like bad weather. They're a factor in the game that other players have zero control over, zero counter measures to. So you can live with it, but it's really not fun for anyone except the CV driver, and it's not a good game component. There should not be a category of players who are for all intents and purposes in a kind of god mode, and will only become a target after everyone else is dead. Players should have the tools available to deal with all categories in game, and that includes CV's. As it stands, CV's might as well be manned by bots, randomly inserted by WG, like islands and cyclones. At least that way, there would be less variation in player level, some CV's have a great driver while others totally suck.

[isilheru]

as a bb main, I agree fully... i'm an aggressive bb player.  I don't like bbs that hide in the back.  I like to be up and assisiting dds and cruisers... but I think that carriers need work.

[DavidSmith-tegg]

I have no problem with carriers, everybody has an issue with something or another​ such as HE spam or stealth torpedoes or radar, its a game just counter and play differently you might enjoy it, I have fun in playing dodge the planes in a DD v CV an take great enjoyment in torping it later inn the game.

[noahjones]

Yes, in ranked they completely stop you from having a meaningful effect on the game. Also just had a game where I did 50k plane damage and shot down 0 planes.

Also, you can't get into position at the start of the match. If CVS completely counter DDS. CLs should completely counter CVs, they should not be able to get off a drop, let alone more then 1 on a CL.

[SandooronBlitz]

I think you are missing the point here Mountbatten, as you miss why they are OP. 1. Spotting - CVs provide unlimited spotting and nullify DDs in many cases, not by damaging them (which is a prob by itself) but by simply killing them by spotting and giving a massive spotting advantage all together. 2 Counter play - there is no counter play, except herding together which as you mention, is bad for your team in another way. When a CV attacks, he does not danger his ship, he has unlimited planes, so the only loss is time potentially. On the other hand surface ships are losing HP, they are spotted so they take more damage from other ships and (defensive) AA is a joke, no counter. 3. This game is about good positioning, capping and creating cross fires. But if you do that with a CV you are punished for it. Positioning for a cross fire means you are isolated and you die to carriers. Contesting a cap early on as a DD means you die to carriers. THat's why they are OP, not for their damage output alone.

[Gundolf]

It's all situational. If you end up as low tier CV it is a pure nightmare. If you end as high tier they are brutal aa-ignoring power houses. Not to speak about the tier x cv:s. If they are not op Russian bias might as well not exist either.
A couple of examples:
Dd:s have pretty much became to the piñatas for cv:s constantly spotted and can be deleted in one attack at times.
Trying to be smart and flank or leave your team for more than 5-6 km is punishable many fire, torpedoes and more fire.
Trying to hunt down a higher tier CV, set it on fire or citadel is damn near complete impossible.

And these are just 3 points. All in all I gotta agree with flamu. "Deletecv

[dzello]

They aren't op, they are broken. By their existence, they can make destroyers unplayable (unable to do what they're supposed to do like spot, cap, etc.) with no counterplay. They have a ''YOU DON'T PLAY THIS GAME OUT '' button. OP would mean they have a winrate that's too high.

[blueangels]

Carriers alone aren't op, it's their aspects that are. First: CVs have no risk reward. When they di damage, even though it isnt usually a lot, the damage they do is permanent, and the damage your planes take is just a joke and you have unlimited so it doesn't even matter. Second: permanent spotting. Its infuriating, you are always spotted which means no counter play. Third: AA is entirely rng, and with how good some Cvs are, it's all just rng. That's why I don't want the depth charge mechanic. I dont like things being completely out of my control. Cvs just sit in the back, and if they get spotted they use their 72k health and 35 kts speed to run away. They take a little skill, I'll give them that, they aren't as easy as made put to be, but they lack strategy. It is just "throw planes at enemy team"

[robertcras]

OF COURSE, CVs are horrible for DDs, they get hammered, spotted, forced to use smoke defensively. The whole CV think was about skill, make it more easy to play. But if you watch players like Aerroon... they make a TON of damage. While the mass of CV players still hug the edge of the map, making flight time as long as possible. Don't know which ship to bomb or not, don't focus DDs and don't respond to the help call of their teammates. Have no clue what the defensive planes button is for (usually used where the other one is dropping them to). Some are so focussed on 1 thing that they a DD has broken through. So often I warn the CV to search for it, they don't... and in the end, they get torpedoed by that DD.

[SakuraShade]

I’ll provide this counter point to claiming they’re not OP. They definitely are.

Why?

Think about how the game works. Everything has a counter.
How to counter a DD? Hydro, Radar, spotter plane to a limited extent, and generally learning how to dodge torps and anticipate them. For CVs it’s just spam it with rockets until it dies.

How to counter a Cruiser? Battleship AP, Focus fire from other cruisers or DDs, even torps to an extent. For a CV? Focus it with rockets until it dies, or delete it with dive bombers.

How to counter a Battleship? Torps, sustained HE fire, focus fire, other battleships. For a CV? Focus it with bombers and torps until it dies.

How to counter a carrier? Hope he’s bad? “Just dodge”? Tell me how you counter a carrier effectively and I’ll be convinced they’re not OP. Because you can’t stop them from striking you, and if they want you dead, you can’t completely de-plane them, so they *will* kill you eventually regardless of what ship you’re sailing.

So I challenge you to do that. Make a guide on how to effectively counter carriers, ship to ship, (so no including all the lemming trains that CVs create so they can stack AA and hope it’s enough to kill all the planes) and I’ll believe they’re not OP. Until then, WG needs to fix them, and until they’re fixed they should be banned from Ranked and Clan Battles at the very least.

This is also coming from someone who grinded to Midway in the past 2 weeks, as a fairly average player, who doesn’t have anywhere near good CV skills. And I’m still able to dunk on people in Midway. CVs are OP, change my mind.

(Edits: spelling/autocorrect errors)