Cultic KJVOism

Today starting off with a warning about the abusive forms of cultic KJVOism out there, looking at the Ruckman-esque behavior of one Cody Zorn, a KJV pastor down in Georgia.

[christopherlapeyrouse]

I read his book, "The King James Only Controversary, " and I'm grateful to him for writing it. Talk about a brilliant mind. I studied Biblical Hebrew and it was the hardest course I've ever taken. The best I could ever do was read it like a second grader. Then I listen to James White expound on Bible text and Church history. In my opinion, this guy is incredible. I trust him, appreciate him, and thank God for his lectures and short narratives on you tube videos.

[preacherboy]

I am one of those that will tell you that God used you to pull me out of that hot mess of a cult. Thank you!

[markcabangon]

I just left a cultivar IFB KJVO church of over 2 decades.
I’ve been starting my journey through the Bible expositionally. There is still much guilt and confusion that I’m struggling with.
But I have been learning so much that I never knew were true.
Freedom away from that manipulation and fear has been a wonderful change.

[EncyclicalPrograms]

Dr. James White should translate a new version and call it the New James Bible

[Valkaneer]

I grew up Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) and he is spot on about the IFB being built on fear. They all do talk the same way. Everyone is Brother or Sister so and so. They have the same hair cuts, they wear the same basic clothing. You must hold to all positions of the IFB movement (Dispensationalism) or you are shunned and chased out. 95% of all IFB churches are run by authoritarians and every single IFB church has a church government in violation of scripture (their deacons sit in the place of an elder but don't meat the qualifications of an elder).

When I first started to look at covenant theology I wanted to listen to Kim Riddlebarger amillennialism 101 series. Me and two other buddies were taking a 10hr long trip and we had decided to listen to the series on the way (we were all raised IFB, but 2 of us were attending a Bible church at the time). Well, less than an hour into it the 3rd fellow that was still IFB accused me of allowing Satan and idea's of the devil into our minds, and was throwing every accusation of evil at me. I ended up deciding to turn off the CD before he and me ended up in a serious fight, because that is where it was going. It was the worst trip of my life and I learned a very important lesson. If you can, always drive your own car.

[hebraist]

When are you going to debate Pints with Aquinas or Bishop Baron?

[johnmiller]

I just read psalm 12 in both the kjv and the esv. I really didn't see much difference. I appreciate the efforts of Mr White. He is a brilliant man, but what are we to say about all the people who only had the kjv to read over the centuries before the dozens of other translations came into being? Were any of them saved? Seriously. I mean aren't we talking about people like Spurgeon, Moody, ect? Don't get me wrong, if there is improvement in the newer translations, that's great! But I can't help but wonder if sometimes all this intellectualism in the church is always good. I appreciate wanting to bring people back to the apostolic teaching and ways. It's the work of the Holy Spirit that brings conviction and enlightenment. I once hear a pastor say that there sometimes the gospel is made to sound mystical.

[kevinyoung]

So True. Keeping them under control is exactly right.
I can honestly say that I really did believe the KJVO garbage. Because the pastor, pronounced by KJVOs- in a reverant, almost whisper, taught it from the pulpit. I am a Southern Baptist preacher's son, and in spite of all my father's faults, I never knew him to lie about the Word of God. Later I drifted into an IFB church because I knew the preacher in the SB, New Orleans seminary grad, to lie.
What got me to open my eyes was when I found out that the Spanish side of the IFB church I was attending used a Bible not translated from the TR but from the King James. Blew My Mind. I wonder if they give credit to those translaters, like they do King James.
That's when I discovered brother White and his KJO Controversy book. And watched the debate from the Macclenburg show on YouTube. Plus many other actual Bible scholars. Thank You for the work you do.

[ronniewright]

Cody Zorn is like the Frenchman on Monty Python and the holy grail.... "I shall taunt you a second time ah"

[todd]

I think the pastor you are referring to pastors at Bible Missionary Baptist in Rockwell NC.

[jameshayes]

"The King James Only Controversy" by White is an excellent resource.

[Dallas.V]

Good content, but please consider cutting the video less. The jumps make it difficult to watch.

I am baffled at the interpretation that what God preserves in Psalm 12 are the words. For people who use Bibles in Spanish perhaps the meaning is clearer in the sense that Spanish differentiates nouns by gender and thus it's very specific about what the object of preservation is. In the Reina Valera version I use it is VERY clear (because of gendered nouns) that what God is preseving are the poor that were mentioned in verse 5 ("poor" masc. plural noun in verse 5, and "them" masc. plural pronoun in verse 7), and not the words (fem. plural noun) in verse 6. "Words" and "them" do not match by gender. The purpose of verse 6 is to say that God's words are true and do not fail when he promises what he will do for those that wait on Him the people from verse 5. Kind of ironic, since KJVO cultists have been known to say that if you want to get the true meaning of Scriptures and you don't speak English, you must learn it.

[wishuhadmyname]

The "KJV is perfection" people need to take just 1 semester of Hebrew amd read through Leviticus. The KJV rivals the NIV in how loosely it treats that book

[donthephoneman]

Im not a king James only person. I just like the KJV!!!

[nobody]

So, what English translation is the best? Is it the ESV? Dr. White never says in his defense.

[kend]

What's hilarious is that he spells "ploughboy" properly, but his beloved version renders the term as "plowboy" (an outdated spelling). This in and of itself is a simple reason for why we need good and trustworthy modern versions. God bless, James!

[poppa]

I broke away from IFB In 2008, all my christian life I've read from the KJV and still do. I'm not a KJV only believer, but I would like to know about a good English version other than the KJV that can be recommended for reading and studying🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[davidemme]

I take a way different approach. Whether in the OT or NT...I ask them to show me where someone is writing about the bible. Most times you are going to relay them as being about, "the scriptures". Then I just compare and contrast what the children of men said about their words. I am using the MEV but the KJV makes it a bit more personal and I think off putting when compared to the words of the Lord-a more sharp contrast in the KJV that says, "our lips are our own, who is Lord over us?"

I should mention I used to be KJVO and IFB. I never used Psalms 12 to be about the KJV because I just had an uneasy feeling in doing that.

Doing it this way some do begin to see it is not really about the scriptures. The other thing I try to show is about the integrity of words-when you give your word. The reason to bring that up because that does tend to be more relatable to KJVO but I ask about how is it that the words of the Lord are not pure when they come out of the Lord's mouth? I ask does this mean maybe God is a potty mouth sometimes and has to wash his mouth out with soap-purify them seven times? No. This is where I can make my point this is not talking about what God needs to do to make his words pure but rather to show the integrity-the surety of his promises-the words he speaks-then re read about the sons of men in the same Psalm:

1 Help, LORD, for the godly man comes to an end,
for the faithful disappear from sons of men.
2 They speak empty words, each with his own neighbor;
they speak with flattering lips and a double heart.
3 The LORD will cut off all flattering lips,
and the tongue that speaks proud things,
4 who have said, “With our tongue will we prevail;
our lips are in our control, who is master over us?”


Modern English Version. Thinline Edition. Lake Mary, FL: Passio, 2014. Print.

As far as behaivor-when that reaction came to James White-I call it, "when anti-intellectualism becomes a spiritual gift".

[martinlohstroh]

I am in the comments looking for Cody Zorn. Cody are you