An answer ✟o Divine Hiddenness

◆ Apologetics ◆ Polemics ◆ Theology ◆ Street Evangelism
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"If there is a god, that god should know exactly what it would take to change my mind - and the fact that he hasn't means that either he don't exist or he don't care - either way, not my problem." A popular phrase from pop-atheist Matt Dillahunty which is being regurgitated all over the internet. Here's my Christian response.
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Why am I not a muslim? ... What about gratuitous evil? ... Divine hiddenness? ... Trinity? ... Atheist objections? ... Bad things in the Old Testament? ... Objections to the New Testament and Jesus' resurrection?

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[shiammi]

Another person encouraged me to find Daniel Apologetics' "Divine Hiddenness" and now I see why!!! Thank you and God bless you for making this vid!!🙏🏽💖✨I subbed, liked, and *Shared* 🌱🌿🌸💕

[MrGassemann]

The hidden God (deus absconditus) as described in Isaiah 45, 15 is what people “see” when they haven’t come to faith. The opposite is when we hear the gospel proclaimed and faith is given, and we can confess with Simeon (Luk. 2, 30) “My eyes have seen Your salvation”. When God becomes revealed (deus revelatus) we are receiving “spiritual eyes” to see the glory and love of God through Christ. Where God is not preached faith is not given. Thank you for preaching the gospel.

[Gideon-vkeu]

"Either way, not my problem" ...
... James 4:6 - “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

[awitnesstojesus]

James 4:6
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.”

God bless you Daniel!

[UriyahYasharal]

What an excellent video! This was like music to my soul... a refreshing video to watch after observing the pride and arrogance of Matt Dillahunty in the recent Ray Comfort debate. God was really speaking through you in this video brother! Glory to God!🙌

Also, great illustration with the Marilynn Monroe point.

[derickrae]

Lovely video. I often think of a time in history God showed His existence clearly and loudly and physically, the time of the Exodus. Rebellion and unbelief still occurred. Our sin blinds us. You are so right about it being a heart issue.

[RedMexGolfer]

How does one 'know' what god is 'interested in'? How can anyone make that assertion or claim?

[TWX]

This is completely delusional. It really scares me how gullible these people are. Like it really makes me uncomfortable.

[DeludedOne]

1:57 This is getting it exactly backwards. Matt isn't interested in building a relationship with a God he doesn't even believe exists. Instead, according to Christians, it is God who is the one who is interested in building a relationship with all humans!

This is the part of divine hiddenness that is either overlooked or concealed by Christians. If their God is one who is indifferent or unwilling about establishing a relationship with humans, then divine hiddenness would not even be a problem. It is precisely even a problem to begin with because Christians insist that their God wants to build a relationship with everyone, and yet still give their God a pass for NOT being the one to initiate the relationship!

Instead, they turn it around and make it the responsibility of the one who isn't even interested in such a relationship to begin with (because they may not even believe God exists), to initiate that relationship!

Daniel can see how absurd this is when put in human terms and relationships, but seems to be COPMPLETELY unable to see that this also applies perfectly to his God! His God is the one that wants to establish the relationship with people, not the other way around, so why is Matt the one who suddenly has to be the responsible party with regards to this relationship (when Matt doesn't even believe God exists to begin with) according to Daniel! This is a classic double standard that is based on the presupposed notion that their infallible God can be absolved of all wrongs or responsibilities.

2:09 Yes, exactly like how God has people who doesn't believe in him because they follow this exact mindset that you just espoused!

2:18 But it is not pride when God remains hidden and expects others to come to him when HE is the one who desires a relationship with them?

2:33 Come my friend, let me introduce you to....who is it again? Anyway that person wants to establish a relationship with you, but doesn't want to do it in person or even reveal its existence. You interested?

2:45 Then I'd like to ask the same question of the Christian, would they accept a both sides view and the notion that their God may not exist and their belief is hollow? Get back to me on that one anytime. For atheists, they aren't concerned because there's no evidence accorded to them that a God exists. For them to be concerned, they would have to first acknowledge that God exists and God hasn't even done that.

For example, are you worried that a dragon might burn your house down tomorrow? No? You're unconcerned? Why?

2:58 And there's the admission. None of this is about rationality, but about belief, faith belief that requires and often has no evidence.

3:12 So....is your God divinely hidden? Yes? Is your God wanting to establish a relationship with people? Yes? Well then I think we have the same view of God with regards to this discussion at least.


3:29 Adam and Eve could do that, why would we be so inferior to them? And they aren't the only ones, Jacob wrestled with God and almost won too.

3:40 So this is basically "You can't handle the revelation of God!" ("You can't handle the truth!") Or as I see it an excuse for Christians NOT being able to produce a God! What? You want to dispute this? Produce your God then! Otherwise, why would my accusation be false?

3:42 Be humble, seek the embrace of Allah, or Vishnu, or Brahma, or Gautama Buddha, or the Mighty Fool that doesn't belong to this era. What? This is exactly the mindset you are calling for, you have to be open minded and that includes believing that God could not be the only being out there worth worshipping yes?

4:02 Really? Details please (none given).

4:51 This is a goalpost shift, Marilyn Monroe may not have been aware of what was in the hearts of the men who courted her, but she well and truly accepted the fact that they existed and that they were men. Divine Hiddenness ensures that this first step, where God's existence is established and acknowledged as God, is not even taken. This is the only objection with regards towards Divine Hiddenness because without even this first step being established, there's no need to consider trusting God or knowing what is in God's heart. Would you bother with knowing the true intentions of someone or something you don't believe even exists?

This is seriously such an egregious shift in the goalposts that I can't help but feel that it was done in order to cover up the notion that there is no good answer with regards to Divine Hiddenness apart from blaming those who don't believe in God for not believing in God.

5:11 Aren't Christians already in that sort of relationship with God already? "Listen to me and get eternal life in heaven, go against me and burn in hell forever!"

Have I summed up the Christian relation with God correctly?

If you object to this, then answer this question; Why is it that Christians who already believe in God do NOT have such a "gold digger" relationship with God after knowing of His existence but if atheists and unbelievers do, they would DEFINITELY have such a relationship with God? After all, to Christians, God making himself manifest in this plane or not makes no difference to them because the already wholly believe in Him yes?

I don't think you'll be able to answer this, and the reason is simple, this entire claim is simply an act of poisoning the well a la Romans 1:20. You demonize atheists and unbelievers by characterizing them in a manner reminiscent of Romans 1:20 and say that even if God were to reveal himself, these dirty unbelievers, who are already evil to the core unlike the pious Christians, would try to take advantage of this relationship with him. Of course good, pious, already believing Christians will NEVER behave in such a manner!

The best part of all is that this very excuse you give is a concession that divine hiddenness is bunk. The main problem with divine hiddenness is that it doesn't make sense for God to remain hidden when He is the one who wants to establish a relationship with people. However here you freely admit in your scenario that if God made himself manifest to unbelievers and atheists, they WILL believe in His existence and that He is God!

You characterize their relationship with Him after the fact in a negative light, but you're clear that they WOULD believe in God's existence and that He is indeed God! And since God is almighty, manifesting in front of people is a simple matter, if that would convince unbelievers and he wants to convince them, then by all rights, by all logical reasoning, He SHOULD manifest before us all!

And yet, reality shows us that God hasn't done that at all, thus proving Matt Dillahunty's claim: "Since God wants to establish a relationship with us, and he is fully capable of making us believe in his existence, then by all rights he should, but he doesn't so that means that God either isn't interested in a relationship with us or God doesn't exist".

5:18 But every relationship STARTS with someone accepting the existence of the other party AT THE VERY LEAST. If God is not interested in apathetic relationships, then He should either work to establish a relationship that isn't an apathetic one, or else not bother to have a relationship at all beyond just "I know you exist, ok."

5:27 And that's why God should be the one who makes sure that the relationship with humans is such a relationship. This should be easy for an almighty God. And since all relationships start with acknowledging the existence of the other party, that's the first thing God SHOULD do.

5:32 And the easiest and best way for that to happen would be for Jesus to do it himself personally. If nothing else, this shows sincerity. Place someone else apart from Jesus in his position and think about how if you are approached by one of his followers with the exact same message. Would you be convinced?

5:57 Of course, you're going to have to elaborate on what that revelation is and how it does what you claim it does. I'm guessing this is going to be a quotation of Romans 1:20 or something along those lines.

Well you yourself conceded that divine hiddenness is bunk, so not an absolute waste of time I guess.

[WhatsTheTakeaway]

Great topic and video, brother. To no surprise of Christians, the Bible answers Dillahunty's question.

Exodus 33:20-23

20 But He added, “You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live.”
21 The LORD continued, “There is a place near Me where you are to stand upon a rock,  22 and when My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will take My hand away, and you will see My back; but My face must not be seen.”

[Toraimirzai]

I really like to watch this video and listening again and again and again. God bless you my friend.

[rockandsandapologetics]

I love your videos. You took a difficult topic and through logic showed us that the answer is simple. Thank you.

[j.gstudios]

This does make alot of sense and thank you!!!! Do you think that God will reveal himself to athiest or agnostics that are truly seeking or perseuing him?

[Adam-mjhl]

Why did God instill in us an intellect that demands evidence and proof before being convinced of a proposition...why did he make it so that the scientific process is the most reliable way of discovering truth...and yet why does he make it such that we cannot discover him through this same scientific process?

[computationaltheist]

Good video Dan. I really enjoyed it. The problem with Mr. Dillahunty's argument is that he wants maximum certainty for God's existence which is not possible. You can't have maximum certainty for anything so it is an unreasonable thing.

[Wertbag]

I would say this mis-represents Matt Dillahunty. To say he is apathetic when he was a long term Christian, training for the priesthood and now investing his time in the debates and arguments, shows a level of involvement far beyond most of us. He searched for God with all his heart and came away empty. For ex-Christians it is not the lack of effort, it is the lack of response. If He didn't stay hidden those types of people who are actively seeking Him would find Him and have the relationship that both of them want.

[ArmorofTruth]

Apathy is is rampant. Apathy is certainly a matter of pride. This is a tough issue to clearly explain. Great video! I'll share this one every time I get that question: Why doesn't God show himself?

[danhudson]

There is evidence that God exists, but the question is "Are you convinced?"

[BuildingUpFaith]

Very well done, Daniel. This is a great topic that comes up often and this was a great answer. I also really liked the images you used---did you film that or where do you find the B-roll videos?

[bennpick]

Excellent video. We gotta treat this as a relationship, and look at the heart. We're to make disciples - not believers. Believeing is only a small step, but these atheists have built a career on locking themselves behind that wall & telling others to join them