Divine Hiddenness: Mike Winger's Desperate Dance Around God's Disappearance

I really did not want to do another Winger Video so soon, but then I saw his response to the Divine Hiddenness Argument. I could not believe his defense and felt compelled to reply. Enjoy!

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Chapters
0:00 Preview
0:40 What Today Is About & Why I Care
1:30 What Is Divine Hiddenness?
2:32 The Chrisitan Blaming
2:52 A Personal Issue
3:13 Clip 1 From Mike Winger
3:46 My Initial Response
4:08 Clip 2
4:36 Agreeing So Far
5:09 Clip 3
5:22 Starting To Question Sincerity
5:39 Divine Hiddenness And Free Will
7:16 Clip 4
7:29 What Is Sincerity?
7:49 Clip 5
8:24 Starting To Get A Bit Unfair
8:57 Clip 6
9:05 No Such Thing As A Sincere Non-Believer?
9:37 Clip 7
9:57 Every Believer Disproves Divine Hiddenness?
11:12 Clip 8
11:37 God Won't Reveal Himself To Sinners?
12:58 Clip 9
13:10 Sincerity In Stages
14:40 Clip 10
15:14 Stop Being Dishonest!
15:35 Clip 11
15:52 Black And White Fallacy
16:54 Clip 12
17:08 Should Personal Experience Not Matter?
17:24 Clip 13
17:32 The Levels Of DIshonesty!
18:27 Be Consistent
19:00 Final Thoughts

#mikewinger #divinehiddenness #atheism #atheist #mindshift #argumentagainstgod #godshiddenness

[MindShift-Brandon]

Welcome, All. One more winger video. I had to. Hopefully, you'll see why.

[crankyeldergod]

To me, Winger's response depicts an abusive relationship. No matter what happens, or how the "relationship with god" has gone wrong, it's always the fallible human's fault.. Not only can a perfect god not be blamed for anything, but the very act of blaming him is yet another sin. It's like locking a child in a room, then blaming the lack of affection on the child for not trying hard enough to break out of the room.

[BluStarGalaxy]

I had health issues that lasted for years. I was in pain at night lying in bed and asking god for anything to help. Complete silence. I would have gotten the same amount of help or acknowledgement if I had prayed to a rock. I was convinced to go be anointed with oil by my pastor and when it didn't work I was told that if I had believed that it would have worked it would have fixed me. Blame the victim mentality is strong in the cult. It was completely toxic.

[TrogdorJr]

Mike Winger is so interesting, he tries so hard to come across and kind and caring in his tone and demeanor while saying some of the more horrific and terrible things. His mental gymnastic abilities are gold medal level.

[akosorosz]

"Why does god reveal himself to some people, but not others"
Exactly

[Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic]

I don't search for a god. I search for truth. So far, there is no evidence for the truth of any gods.

[deepashtray]

Winger's not trying to explain God's propensity for hide and seek, he's excusing it.

[robertmoore]

It makes me want to say, “Stop hiding behind your creation and reveal yourself if you want more people to believe in you.”

[Jake-zcfk]

Great job again Brandon! Don’t let these guys off the hook, they deserve the scrutiny that you and others give these people. The insanity of religion needs to be put in it’s proper place, the dust bin of history!

[Wertbag]

Divine hiddenness was the nail in the coffin for me (started with being told about a literal global flood, went through being unable to reconcile the hippy NT god with the brutal OT god, finding out about the lack of unity in Christianity to the point of centuries of bloody warfare and then when I prayed for any kind of sign, I got nothing and realized I was talking to myself). Reading the OT about how God wasn't shy to appear constantly, as a burning bush, flaming pillar, old man, voice from the sky or sending angelic messengers. He granted his favorites magical powers, including giving Elijah the ability to do miracles on demand for the purpose of proving God exists... and yet we see nothing of the sort outside of those stories. This rubbish about us somehow blocking God, just makes me wonder if they actually think He is all-powerful. If He was then there is nothing, I could do to stop Him from getting what He wants. Paul wasn't seeking and yet was convinced, so apparently that isn't even a requirement. If He wants everyone to know Him, and wants a personal relationship with everyone, then He would have it. He doesn't, so either He can't or won't, either way conflicts with what is being claimed.

[seraphonica]

this argument of Mike's has big "how dare you bring a knife to a knife fight?" energy. imagine trying to tell Mike that he's not allowed to talk about HIS personal beliefs and experiences

[mistyhaney]

Responding to Winger is appreciated as long as you can stomach it. I've watched with dismay the growth of his channel. His presentation sounds calm and measured, while becoming increasingly toxic in its portrayal of anyone questioning any aspect of his concept of Christianity. He also has no problem claiming knowledge regarding forms of Christianity that aren't his.

[pickenchews]

I'm 42. I've spent my entire life deeply deeply deeply yearning for God, thinking about God, putting God at the center of my heart and thinking of Him countless times per day (and still intend to cling to my often-feeble faith forever). I've also spent my whole life wrestling with doubt, and everytime another believer questions my sincerity, when I've literally cried my eyes out for God to show me He's real many many many times, that person is basically slamming the door shut to me ever taking their spiritual advice seriously. It's very hard to offend me, but that ignorant dismissal SERIOUSLY offends me. I often doubt they can even fathom the level of sincerity it takes to walk in my shoes on this. For people like that, it apparently comes too easy.

[peertopeertherapy]

My wife and I had two children and we never abandoned or hid ourselves from them because we love them. Why then does a all powerful god that supposedly created us that Christians claim is a loving heavenly father abandoned and hide from us? Makes no sense to me.

[mikeharrison]

There's nothing I would love more than to have a relationship with a truly loving and sensible god.

[THFLCNx]

I'm reminded of that movie The Grey, when Ottway looks up at the sky and says, "Show me something real. F*ck faith; I need it now!" I think a lot of us can relate to that.

[omnikevlar]

This was great! My issue is if the believers are gonna accuse non believers that they must be doing some level of resistance to maintain nonbelief. Couldn't the nonbeliever flip the script on the believers that they must be doing some level of resistance to maintain faith?

This is the problem when we try to psychoanalyze each other beyond what people are presenting rather than take each other at their word.

[MarkC-ni]

My deconversion took way more than three years. I feel so fortunate to have gotten free from my obsession with god at all. Being brought up to be a believer sucks!

[loriw]

Don’t forget……god only gets credit for the GOOD stuff. Everything else is OUR fault. When the imaginary man in your head has THAT kind of advantage, it’s a win-win. I’m stealing some of your points btw. Another excellent video!

[KeanuReevesIsMyJesus]

It’s so great to see your sub count go up, every time we click on your videos. Well deserved and looking forward to your growth.