The Problematic Book of Ecclesiastes

The Book of Ecclesiastes BARELY made it in the canon for this reason. #bible #ecclesiastes #christopherenoch
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[taylorbruce]

The wisdom of Solomon is that he understood that the earth goes on and on and on while men die.

[itsmeterri]

It is one of my favorite books. In summary the author is saying no matter how much you know or think you know, no matter how much you have or want no matter what you have or haven't done, at the end of the day God is all in all and He is all you need.

[buen_]

You are missing a big thing called context

[mattm]

Dude, it’s a Hebrew saying. It’s comparing the constant of Earth vs the short span of a human life. It’s like saying “all we are is dust in the wind”. That doesn’t mean we are literally dust in the wind.

[nicholasg-sgds]

Observation. You are 100% missing the point. I don't know if it's to provoke a larger conversation or not. Now, let's say you do, in fact, believe what you are say- wouldn't it be your goal to turn people to your side of the argument? Now, yes, you have invited them to come "debate" you. The thing is that no one is looking for a heated debate brother. The way you invite makes someone feel stupid. Is that your goal? By making someone feel stupid, you are the one who shuts the door to them possibly seeing truth according to your definition (but that's not the debate here ). Now, I would be a hypocrite to not explain why you are wrong. If we read the previous verses we can see that King Solomon starts the book with talking about the vanity of essentially life or however you would like to put it. The time of King Solomon writing this is assumed to be when he was in his old age, after he had pretty much attained everything he could possibly have. In his old age, he sees that everything is meaningless on earth. So, if we move forward through chapter one and into chapter 3, we read, "What profit has a man from all his labor In which he toils in the sun?" (NKJV). Why would he question this? It's more of a rhetorical and more thought-provoking question. He mentions this talking about how "All is vanity." I think you can see where I'm going with this. Now, if we move on to verse 4, he says in a quick summary that generations will come and go, and the earth will remain. After the verse, he gives several examples of things that stay very monotonous and never changing for the most part. If we skip past his examples and into verse 11, he says, "There is no remembrance in former things, Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those who come after". What does this mean? This refers back and clarifies more what the definition of this vanity is. Life. Life is vanity. So when we go back to chapter 4, Solomons point isn't to say that the earth is eternal, it's to state that we will come and go and the earth will keep moving. Generations will come and go, but the earth and its history will go on. Life begins and ends but the world won't stop. This has nothing to do with King Solomon trying to disprove or say that, for example, God will make a new earth and heaven. This reminds me of the argument that people use to disprove the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit by using a cherry picked line from 1 Corinthians 13 8-10 by saying "Tongues will cease" but is we read before and onward we can see thats not at all what that means lol, but that's a different argument for a different time. My point in bringing that up is, that when you bring up a verse to further your point, yes, crossreferencing is important, but context before crossreferencing is much more important in the order of a fact based debate. And, like I said before, having a more "teacher approach" to those who you think are wrong will prompt them more to listen rather than coming off hostile because you are either easily offended or just ignorant, which I'm sure you aren't, right? Also, challenging people to come on a face cam to a debate is kind of a cheat card for you. You can laugh at that statement but think about it, who the hell wants to take time out of their day, and gather up the courage to show their face to however many people watch you live, just to either have someone bash them and not listen, or to feel even more insecure about having conversations with other. You may not realize it, but a lot of people are indeed insecure when it comes to just facetime calls. And a lot of people have families and are busy. I personally work 14 hours a day between two jobs. The only reason I have time to comment this is because I'm actually spending time in my word and wanting to see how other people study this book and their takes on it. So, in conclusion, I would take this advice to heart. This isn't attacking you, this is advice on how to approach people and to remember to preach with context because to twist God's word is blasphemy and blasphemy of the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin unless under certain circumstances including humility (John 5:6 ). So there you go, if there were typos, I would advise not using those in an argument against me if you truly care to even read what I have put together for you. Have a good day and remember to study show yourself approved (2 Tim. 2:15).

[alecepting]

He doesn't get the book of Ecclesiastes. It's written from the vantage point of "under the sun". In other words, it's from the perspective of one who looks at the world without a belief in God or an acknowledgement of a Creator. It's like Macbeth: "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day-to-day, to the last syllable of recorded time...life is a tale told by an idiot". Life just goes round and round in circles, one generation leading to the next, with the earth the only thing remaining (perhaps being a reference to the dust from which we came and to which we shall return). Everything one could ever pursue in life is futile because it has no permanent reference frame that transcends our mortality. Later on the the book, Solomon draws the conclusion that you have to remember your Creator early on in life to to direct your path and that fearing (revering) God and keeping His commandments, notwithstanding the chaotic world in which we live, will give you the meaning, purpose, and wisdom you need to live a fulfilling life.

[nicrosilmind]

If I say that I will always support my wife, but then later mention that I will likely die before her (and consequently be in a position where I can’t support her), am I lying/contradicting myself/being problematic?

No. Most people would recognize that I’m using a figure of speech to describe my unconditional support of my spouse.

[Jesus_Saves_]

It’s such a beautiful book and packed with knowledge and wisdom, for those who want understanding. Please make sure you’ve repented of your sins and received the Holy Spirit in order to receive and interpret the Scriptures…

[thucydides]

Solomon, unlike some of the other authors of the Bible, was actually wise. His words read as if they were written yesterday, that’s how much what he says corresponds with our reality. He was tapping into something real about human existence. I truly see king Solomon as the first continental philosopher.

[bandicot_]

If u take it literally, yes it is questionable
However there is a thing called context
What solomon meant is not that the earth is eternal but that our lifes are nothing more than a short time
Compared to its span

[finnharper]

earth is used to reference many things, solomon is referring to the fact that mankind does not cease, even in death we meet our eternity

[chasepalagi]

"Olam" is the Hebrew word. It doesn't cleanly translate as "forever".
It is a word that is contingent on the noun being present.

I.e "I will love my wife "olam".
Instead of "I will love my wife forever", it is more like"
I will love my wife as long as we both shall live.
Or I will until I am unable.

[owen]

Context is important, cherry picking scripture and leaving out everything is false teaching...you're problematic

[fk]

As far as I understand it: Our human existence is insignificant, what matters is that God's kingdom is forever .In this occasion the earth means God's kingdom

[Ninishiningleaf]

Look up the Hebrew word Hevel. It's the word translated to 'meaningless' or 'vanity'. In English bibles. This will help greatly in understanding the deeper meaning of Ecclesiastes and simply calling it meaningless does not allow the full depth of its teaching.

[conquistador]

Listen, I like to get bored and study religions and historical figures. So a lot of times I find myself cherry picking, I much rather listen to wisdom of king Solomon,

[theapplemancan]

its important to derive the meaning and context from the words especially because of the language barrier

[agk]

Congrats for completely missing the point.

[adonitel]

What you're only focusing on is the cycle that happens between them.

Another aspect that you're missing is evolution. Even though future humans will still go through simular tests as the current ones, they will have a different environment and means to live by, but life overall stays the same.

I hope this helps.

[yolandacastillo-newsome]

Well, it's not wrong. The earth will abide forever just means simply that. God will make a new heaven and a new earth Upon the ones already in existence. He's not going to make another planet, but instead bring this one back to it's original intention as was in the Garden of Eden.