A Failure On Every Level: Avengers #200

Hi. This is a look at the complete failure of the 200th issue anniversary for the Avengers. It get’s pretty gross.

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CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introduction
1:10 - A Series Of Distasteful Events
5:23 - Creating The Travesty
8:35 - The Aftermath

SOURCES:
Avengers #200 by Jim Shooter. December 12, 2011.
Marvel Database. Avengers Volume 01 - Issue 200.
The R**e Of Ms. Marvel by Carol Strickland. Originally published in LOC #01. 1980.
A Conversation With David Michelinie. Comic Shenanigans Podcast. April 21, 2016.
The George Perez Interview by Steven Riggenberg. Originally published in The Comics Journal #79-80. 1983.

BACKGROUND MUSIC:

#comics #comicbooks #bronzeage #marvel #marvelcomics #msmarvel #captainmarvel #avengers #captainamerica #hawkeye #wasp #scarletwitch #caroldanvers #jimshooter #georgeperez #davidmichelinie #boblayton #xmen #chrisclaremont #cringe

[PRAISE_HASHUT]

In the U.K. in the early 2000s, Busiek’s amazing run on Avengers was reprinted and sold in newsagents marketed at a younger audience (comic shops aren’t/weren’t massive things over here and a lot of marvel comics find the younger audience through this reprint marketing). They often included a vintage issue as a back up feature.

I remember reading this one as a teenager as a backup feature in one such reprint and was confused by the stark contrast to Carol’s brilliant character arc in the Busiek run.

Now as an adult, it feels even worse with its rampant misogyny, utter meaninglessness and mistreatment of a character who at times had been marketed as Marvel’s answer to Wonder Woman.

Glad to see that behind the scenes, even at the time, it was called out for what it was - absolute bollucks.

[esean]

Slight correction: This story was inked by Dan Green.

I remember reading this issue and thinking "WTH did I just read?" and then "Somebody at Marvel must really hate Ms. Marvel". Seriously, they couldn't just write her out of the book in one of their regular roster shuffles?

[ianr.navahuber]

6:42 I didn't know that ol' saying: "Success has many parents, while failure is an orphan"
9:46 I didn't know Chris Claremont wrote Carol Danver's first solo series
11:00 So this is basically the reason why Carol Danvers basically became an X-Men during the 80s

[mrhypnagogia]

Claremont bringing Danvers into the x men to protect her is the most macho Pedro Pascal daddy thing ever. What a hero of a guy

[rackstraw]

Proof positive that even talented creators turn out garbage from time to time.

[KasumiKenshirou]

There was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode called "The Child" with a very similar plot, minus the incestuous romance stuff. It has a mysterious accelerated pregnancy, and then the child continues to age rapidly, and it turns out it was an alien.

This script actually predates Avengers #200, having been written for a previous Star Trek TV series (Phase II) that ended up not happening, and being dusted off for TNG due to a writers' strike. Did anyone at Marvel see this script? Marvel also had a Star Trek comic around the time of Avengers #200.

[gagnose]

Carol eventually called all the Avengers out for this in a single badass moment

[kingbeauregard]

This is why I like the idea of the occasional Superboy Punch! where Superboy-Prime punches the multiverse and knocks bad continuity out of existence. Every so often, Superboy should show up at Uatu's home and say "Hi, is it that time again?" and Uatu sighs and nods. Then Superboy punches the universe, everything shakes for a second, and then Uatu tells us which comics and events are no longer in continuity. "Avengers 200 and that whole pregnancy storyline ... ? Didn't happen."

[JosephCantu-qqyr]

The first comic run I started reading began with avengers 181 when I was in kindergarten and first grade I remember getting the issue 200 and just kind of feeling grossed out for a reason I couldn't explain. then came the destruction of yellow jacket character, then my two favorite character is the vision in Scarlet Witch would separated and ruined. Good times

[allenrubinstein]

It's flabbergasting that rooms full of adults didn't even have pause at just the impact of the physical act of birthing a child. They never considered these characters to be representing flesh and blood human beings. They were plastic action figures-- pop out a magic baby and keep right on fighting bad guys. Sure, why not? When did Spider-Man ever need months of physical therapy to recover from muliple broken bones?

I mean, it's pretty plain that in the seventies and eighties the majority of mainstream writing by Marvel/DC was pounded out and hacky. Nobody talks like that; nobody acts like that; nobody's life is like that, obviously. When you're dealing with that level of disconnect, sure stuff like this is going to happen. You're just cranking out "event". Thing is, Claremont actually cared... Byrne cared, Wolfman cared, Miller cared. That's why they were the best. They let themselves experience their fictional worlds and identify with their characters' life experience.

[taylors]

I remember reading this as a teen in the 90's. I found it at comic book shop and was like ooo 200th issue. And thought wtf when I got it home and read it. At least Claremont treated her better when she returned and told the Avengers to drop dead after this for a while.

[lizardart]

What the actual hell is this issue? Only finished the series of distasteful events, but i just need to voice my confusion at this comic.

[carloscrecelius]

I remember when this story first came out. I wondered why the Avengers were ok with Carol basically being raped, and then deciding to marry her "son". This story was wrong on so many levels. Worse than Hank slapping Jan.

[ANIpJs]

Reading this from a long box I picked up from a resale shop. This story endeared me to Carol Danvers, I've always liked her. And yes this extends to the movie version, which in case you didn't know or see this. But that first movie of hers has some rather significant parallels to this story. Her being a brainwashed and manipulated by a man trying to get what he needs. They kinda did with this storyline what they did with Tony's demon in a bottle story. Imply that's the case but don't go into the darker parts of addiction or abuse.

[uwucotc]

everytime you upload a vid i smile, this is such a cursed comic and i cant understand how marvel gave a thumbs up so this could be released.

[nilusk]

I didn’t start collecting comic until 1989, I was inspired by a little movie starring a guy dressed as a flying rat, but I soon discovered the X-Men in my local comic shop. I was the type of kid who wanted to know “the whole story” so not only did I try to hunt down all the back issues I could, I also followed those editors notes and got related works. So by the early 90s I think I had read Avengers 2000 and even pre-teen me at that time thought it was completely f’d up. I had seen enough of Claremont’s take on Carol by the point in X-Men and Miss Marvel books and it was a complete betrayal of very cool character. I am kinda glad they never retconned it though because I feel like it really feeds her arc going forward. If it just went away it would betray the character she became and the relationships she had formed. Plus it would let the rest of the Avengers off the hook for their part in it.

One of my comic pride in joys is my complete X-Men Claremont run. It was expensive to complete and I got a lot of very famous issues in “ungraded” quality because I couldn’t afford better but I always regretted not getting more
Miss Marvel comics. Then in 2004 I met my future wife, who also collected comics in her youth and her favorite comic was Miss Marvel and had a complete run. The moment I heard that I knew she was the one. In an even more fun twist the story my wife is Pakistani American and for years lamented about the lack of representation in comics, so needless to say we are huge fans of Kamala Khan, at least when Marvel isn’t killing her off for shock value in a Spider-man
book.

[lexxstrum]

I always think that after Carol leaves with Markus (I always think this story is Korvak, for some reason), the Avengers are going shake their heads and be like "WTF Just happened?"; the story establishes Markus has tech that can override your mind and decisions, and it would fit his creeper vibe to give her the whole "my friends are supportive of this" scenario. Then they could have saved this storyline.

But I guess I'm too progressive for something like that.

[markshulusky]

I was in my early teens when the "Ms. Marvel is pregnant" story was published. It was ick/cringe/and everything else. The Avenger's lack of reaction was the only way to gloss over such an unpalatable event... but why set out to do such an unnecessary thing? The story idea was unsuitable for a wide audience comic and, itself, should have been vetoed before IT was conceived.

[BleedingDinoLove]

Everything I hear about Clairemont makes me love him more.

[beans]

Babe wake up a new strange brain parts video was uploaded