How Sally's True Identity Changes EVERYTHING in The Nightmare Before Christmas (Disney)

In Nightmare Before Christmas there are MORE Tree Doors than we knew, and Sally's true past completely changes how we view Halloween Town and the OTHER realms! How many towns and ancient realms are there, really?

So there’s this new Nightmare Before Christmas book about Sally and I of course read it. And I have some “thoughts” and theories. It reveals a TON of what we’ve always speculated about Halloween Town, and the other Towns too… and Sally’s true origin really blows things up in like galactic proportions. SO, of course with great revelations come… a lot of spoilers. Consider this your warning, because of course I’m going to dissect this book like Jack Skellington obsessively dissecting Christmas in this sorta "Long Live the Pumpkin Queen" book review!

"Floating Cities" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech. com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Sources:
"The Nightmare Before Christmas" movie, 1995 Tim Burton/Henry Selick c Disney
"Long Live the Pumpkin Queen" book, 2022 by Shea Ernshaw c Disney

Timecodes:
00:00 - Sally's Origins Book
4:37 - All the Other Holiday Town Trees Explained
10:33 - Big Sally Backstory Spoiler
15:37 - Portal to Human World
18:23 - The Ancient Realm Trees
20:06 - Thoughts on Retcons

#thenightmarebeforechristmas #nightmarebeforechristmas #jackskellington #abitfrank #sallyskellington #pumpkinqueen #disney

[BlackShadowUchiha]

I think the difference between the flower petals wilting and the four leaf clover is not a continuity error but the difference between something be taken from the realm and something being willing given to leave the realm

[Bluepriest]

So she's the princess of dreams and the queen of fear. She's the Lady of Nightmares then.

[Panda_Roll]

"I am not the thing you feared."
Subtle but I REALLY like it. He's saying I am not death, I am sleep, death's little brother.

[-yamyam-]

I believe the reason why Halloween town is so isolated is because it's different. All the other holidays are bright and full of joy. While mainly Halloween is a very dark and scary time.

[syo]

I didn't know there was a new book!

The plotwist of Sally's origins really surprised me! The fact that she is a ragdoll never made me question Dr.Finkelstein's words of her creation.
I hope they release another book in the future about the other old realms, would like to know what worlds are behind those doors.

[Omnywrench]

I had a headcanon that when Dr. Finklestein said "I made you with my own hands", he was being literal, I.E. he cut off his own hands to make Sally, and he wears prosthetic hands under his gloves. He's certainly no stranger to using bits of himself to build his creations.

[spaceracer]

In fairness to Jack, how long do any of us think we'd last in Valentine Town?

[DustyB]

This is probably the closest thing we’re getting to a Nightmare before Christmas sequel

[MysticHydra]

Please keep in mind this was made by a different author. Disney might make it cannon, but it's not what the original creator had in mind while making the original movie

[DancingAngelOfSpira]

I always thought that Sally was a murder victim who was stitched back together and reanimated by Dr Finklestein, so her backstory in this book was a huge shift for me.

[APenguinsLullaby]

It feels a little fan-fictiony even though it's canon. I like Sally going off on her own adventure between world (definitely a character that needed more time in the spotlight), but it also feels like it doesn't explore how she overcame her anxieties of becoming the pumpkin queen. Her parents being from a different world feels the most like fan fiction, almost making her seem like some kind of chosen one rather than something that stood up, learnt how to overcome her worries, and saved the worlds whilst still being a normal person kinda reducing her agency. I also loath the ending "Oh I was just tired" like shut your insomniac ass up; you were being a dick and you deserve consequences for you actions.

I do love the idea of there being so many trees though, there is a hell of a lot just screaming to be explored there.

[thegayghost]

I wonder if there’s a separate grove for non-American holidays, like Dia de Los Muertos or Bastille Day

[choppy_citty]

As a kid I always thought it was uncanny she was stuffed with leaves after she threw herself from the window, later down the line I thought it was for censorship purposes, but this is really clever!! Also, making the doctor fall asleep with her tea so she could sneak away is such a clever continuity point. Just because she was taken away doesnt mean she's separated from her roots

[queenoffrance]

They should have made the inhabitants of Thanksgiving town scarecrows.

[tomboyangel]

I'll have to look for that book. It sounds like a great read.

Also, it adds to Finklestein's controlling/abusive behavior towards Sally. He didn't just want her locked away because of his "I oWn YoU" mindset, he didn't want to risk her discovering the truth.
Theory: He used the Forgetful potion on the whole town, so no one would know where Sally originally came from.

Edit: Read the book. It was incredible ^^

[gabrielmerchant]

I hope if there's ever a movie adaptation, they take visual and vibe inspiration for Thanksgiving land from Over The Garden Wall, specifically the pumpkin village and the schoolhouse. Like, what if the people looked more like 19th century newspaper cartoons and caricatures... that like hyperrealistic, ink hatching, faces slightly too big but not inherently horrific. Kinda like the original sketch of the mad hatter.

[SICProwl]

If you think about it, Halloween is kind of a young holiday compared to the others - and it's not as widely spread around the world like the others. So it's probably still just a 'baby' door.

[thMaiden]

I like all the points you made, and I agree about alot of the plot holes bothering me. The build up was great, but after the discovery of her parents and homeland it got...kinda weird I guess?

Sally being from a Dream Land makes sense considering ragdolls are kinda an odd addition to Halloween, ragdolls aren't really thought of as scary but rather comforts and toys (maybe voodoo or porcelain dolls but not just a straight up ragdoll). Since Burton originally planned for her to be from there, it works out. Further, even the Narration at the beginning hints to a "Dreamland" as it states "maybe somewhere you've seen in your dreams...", So the whole "Sally from Dreamland" works. Her premonition powers also work with this cause "premonitions in dreams". Her personality still fits with the canon, though I can't see the townies being that cruel to her, maybe the witches cause of their weird fangirling over Jack, but otherwise most of the townies are well meaning. I'd more think she'd be suffering from getting overwhelmed by the sudden attention and new duties, that alone can cause crushing anxiety, especially if she's faced an extremely critical and controlling environment like Sally had.

Dr. Finkelstein's kidnapping of Sally feels odd as it's been proven he can create "beings", he made a new 'mate' he named Jewel, and brought to life 8 dead reindeer. While I know Finkelstein was supposed to be a villain previously, I think using him this way wasn't the right idea. I personally would have had the Sandman kidnap Sally in anger over the revolt and chunked her into the Hinterlands to die. Sally, being just a kid, lost and afraid, got torn up in the Hinterlands, loosing a lot of her cotton until she, tattered and barely alive, found the Halloween door and fell in. There Finkelstein found her tattered bits and put her back together, stuffing her with leaves in place of the lost cotton, and brought her back to life. In doing so he thought he'd created himself a servant, especially since she couldn't remember who she was, aside from her name. This would fit his obsessive treatment of her which is more master/slave than anything familial, as well as keep his being creation/reanimation abilities intact. Not to mention show another nastiness to Sandy.

Sandy's forgiveness at the end sucks too, Oogie Boogie literally was ripped open and reduced to his tiny earwig main bug self, and squashed by Santa. Santa nearly got murked by Oogie in his booby trapped casino, and Jack was freaking blown up. This whole, 'oh he took a nap and now he's nice!' just feels like a mega cop out. He should have been sentenced to eternal slumber in Dreamland or something. If that was all it took, how did none of the Dreamland residents figure it out before?? Also Sally's parents extreme measures seem way over the top, like "Oh no we have a Sandman invasion! Better burn the house down!!". Like how about you try capturing him first?!

Also as much as I love exploring the other doors, Thanksgiving and 4th of July creeped me out. They should have stuck with Elfman's idea of turkeys being the residents. The 4th of July world sounded awful, _constant fireworks??_ I don't think there's a real way to depict that holiday like the others and should have been... sidestepped if possible.

All in all a good book, just a lot of random plot holes and "eh" parts ...
(TL;DR:. Good read but some parts are alittle off and odd)

[djmurphy_]

with Halloween Town's Oogie Boogie Man and Dream Town's Sand Man, I wonder if the other holidays and special event doors had a "villain" that's banished or locked away. like, maybe Krampus?

[Rexulub]

This retcon was actually a clever move since Sally's personality is so different from anyone in Halloween town. Besides her strange powers related to "visions" didn't have much explanation either