Listening fatigue

Paul explains what causes listener fatigue in a high-end system.

[MegaM]

It works the other way around as well. If you are mentally fatigued at a certain day. Any system can be too much and your system doesn't sound good. I thought it was my system but it was me. The way music is experienced is a reflection of oneself.

[kabes-us]

Paul, what I have found is most people fatigue over “brightness” as defined by an overly hot top end or treble. However, in my experience, the harshness that I’ve encountered is in the midrange and vocals. More specifically sibilance and vocals that emphasize “T” and “S” sounds right within the 1 to 3 kHz range. Thank you

[NoEggu]

Three experiences:

1) My 2003 Nissan Sentra's factory stereo is surprisingly good (much better than my 2020 Honda Accord's factory stereo). I can listen to it on long trips, and enjoy every minute of it. It came with a CD tray and radio -- that's it. The CDs stopped ejecting. It sounded like a gear in the motor wore out. So I had to replace the head unit.

I replaced it with a Pioneer unit, at the recommendation of a Crutchfield salesman. Well, I could never finish a song. It wore me out. It was yelling the music at me. After not completing 3 or 4 songs, I had to turn it off, for my sanity. I sent it back to Crutchfield. I did not seek any other recommendations from them. They do carry some excellent home speakers. So they are on the ball. I just did not want to deal with them again for my car stereo.

Fortunately, I found a very good installer that worked out of his home, and kept many different units in stock.

In his driveway, I tried a JVC, and then a Sony. Both of them were boom-y and trebbly, with everything in the neutral position. They tuned it for sizzle boom. Like having too much salt on your fries, those units grinded on my nerves after a few seconds. There was nothing natural about their sound quality.

The last brand that the "store" carried was Kenwood. I never hear anything by Kenwood. To my surprise, it sounded a bit better than my car's stock unit, and I could play all of my music via a USB flash drive. I was back in business, enjoying music on every drive, never getting fatigued. Big thumb's up to Kenwood's Excellon head units. And they were not expensive. I think I paid $150 + labor for the installation.


2) When my local high-end store installed my upgraded speakers, one of the incompetent installers connected my right speaker out of phase.
My upgrade sounded worse than what I had, and I could not figure out why. I could not listen to it for more than a few minutes.

It took a fair amount of complaining to the store's owner, and finally to the manufacturer's owner when I met him, and the store sent over a skilled installer who had a great ear. It took him 20 seconds. He heard the problem after only 10 or 20 seconds. He checked the connection to both speakers. He corrected the wiring problem, and it sounded great. I can now listen all day. No fatigue.

But with that problem, the fatigue factor was 9.5 out of 10.

I believe that fatigue sets in when you keep craving for something to be different with the sound quality. When something is wrong, it grinds on your nerves, and fatigues you.
Whether it be too much bass, music yelling at you, a phase issue, unnatural sound, etc, it is fatiguing -- especially when you listen, critically.


3) I purchased a set of AR (Acoustic Research) Powered Partners speakers in 1993 for my first computer (A Gateway 2000, with a DX/2 66 mHz CPU, 8 MB RAM, and 340 MB hard drive). That was when computers needed a sound card, otherwise all you got were beeps. There are certainly better desktop speakers. But I still use those AR speakers for my current computer, because they sound very good, and do not fatigue me. They throw a good soundstage, and exaggerate nothing.

[WSS_the_OG]

It's amazing what you said about finding that sweet spot of resolution of detail vs a pleasurable listening experience that's not "dull." That's the thing we chase isn't it, that Goldilocks zone. Once you find the one that works for your ears and brain, yes, the volume stays down lower, and everything is there in abundance. It becomes about the performance and the performers, and not the equipment. This is a Eureka moment, and it takes a lot of time and effort to achieve it without having to compromise too much. I mean, sure there is no perfect system, but once you 98% of the way there and you can sit down in your comfy chair and experience a great piece of music, you've done it.

[danab]

Getting a system just right, with detail and separation, while avoiding brightness, is super tricky. Funny enough though, from what I’ve seen a lot of audiophiles inflict fatigue on themselves by virtue of the never ending chase. They had it right once upon a time and borked it by swapping components.

[SantanKGhey]

Cerwin Vega - Instant listening fatigue

[dannymcneal]

My personal mood isn’t the same all day, every day. At one time during a particular day, I may be in the mood for concert-level audio, so I choose an album or SuperAudio CD that’s appropriate for that energetic level of sonic tones—I get my fix and then move on. During another part of that same day, however, I may not be sporting so much energy, and want to just unwind and chill, so I’ll choose an album that’s appropriate to satisfy me then, set a lower volume, and I get an appropriate fix and move on. I believe music should be fluid to match our mood.

[jacobmotum]

Thank you for answering my question Paul! 😃

[carlubambi]

I find that finding the right volume for a room makes all the difference. ROOM ACCOUSTICS MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN FATIGUE. Carpets, , Drapes, Wood, VS concrete furniture materials.and the speakers, but most of all the music itself, the recording quality

[SastusBulbas]

I find if you can fall asleep after a hard days work, while listening to your favorite albums, and be woke up due to some unexpected dynamic bass transient, and if on your day off your continually pulling out album after album, your onto a good thing.

[richardramorino]

I couldn't agree more. Most highly resolving systems I've had over the years have worn me out. As I got more experienced, I have chosen systems that I would say have truth in tone....the instruments sound real and the voices sound human.

[AndyHanson-tfkj]

I've wanted to move away from a system in the past that lacked a little excitement (pipe n' slippers) to one that verged on bright (in yer face) with poorer recordings. The more revealing nature of what I moved to ended up causing a small irritating degree of fatigue which once heard can't be unheard and took a while to reveal itself, maybe due to aging and a very mild onset of tinnitus. I've finally ended up with a system that pairs speakers that some might call bright (B&W 803D3's) with an amp some might call warm (McIntosh MA9000). The pairing complement each other perfectly. Good recordings sound great without adjustment and poor recordings are OK but can be made better through the Mac's equaliser. This might not be the most purist approached, but it's certainly the most satisfying. Ultimately, in my experience it's a case of choosing components carefully, auditioning always (past a certain price point where dealers are willing to accommodate), room acoustics, hearing acuity, personal preference and system synergy. Plus putting in the effort to get the best of what you have and an acceptance that recording quality varies, sometimes dramatically. And perhaps accepting that whatever you have will never be perfect which leads to listening more to the music and less to the system which is ultimately why we're here.

[stevenkoski]

After auditioning many top brands of spkrs, within my budget, my choice was clear to me. I bought a set of Von Schweikert Audio Endeavor 3 SE’s. In their price range, they reproduced the most natural, realistic sound I’ve heard, & at times have me held in disbelief of what I’m hearing. Listening fatigue is nonexistent🔊🥰.

[Vor-tech-studios]

As a musician, listener and audio engineer have found that when there is lots of sound around the human voice ranges especially, either too loud or its too busy and complicated, 2 things things can happen for me if things dont get balanced or even removed. My ears can shut down quickly as my ears will get tired, or my brain will get overwhelmed and get exhausted, but some combination of the 2 really. though I generally am appreciating more quiet now, Its an oxymoron that as our hearing degenerates, it seems to feel like it gets louder.

[jamesburrell]

30 years ago my London dealer lent me audio research and krell amps to listen at home for a week. This was so important as I would have bought the wrong amp from a shop demonstration. After less than an hour with the Krell I was getting a headache and I have had audio research ever since.

[cubeaceuk]

In the mid 70s when making commercials for the UK's Independent Broadcasting Authority (commercial) radio stations we used NAB cartridges that once recorded had to be checked for phase alignment by ear so as to be compatible with mono radio receivers as well as checking volume levels, stop / start points etc. Sometimes this would involve the same commercial being put on to several dozen cartridges. As you state it is regarding the higher frequencies and in this listening case was not volume dependent. After an unspecified amount of time which varied depending on content as a commercial with no music soundtrack typically did not contain as many high frequencies, it was impossible to even tell stereo from mono and one would have to take a break of at least 20 minutes before continuing.

[touretto]

A wonderful way to avoid or reduce listening fatigue is to use DSD instead of PCM. PCM sounds more exciting, more spectacular (in some cases quite desirable), but has something aggressive, sterile and clinical about it. DSD is somewhat denser, warmer, more natural and less detailed at first. However, the details are all there, just less in the foreground. However, DSD is in a different league when it comes to spatial information such as reverberation, echo and quiet background noises; you have much more of a feeling of being there, everything seems so relaxed and natural without hiding anything. Perhaps the reason for listening fatigue is also that our brain tries to compensate for a certain unnaturalness or aggressiveness, which of course requires a lot of computing work on the part of our brain.

[eajlucas]

Thanks for your great series, Paul. I always found that listeners fatigue happens when the illusion of the soundstage isn't correct and the brain tries to compensate for that. Also, my current system is a bit too bright for my taste but not fatiguing at all.

[tomw]

I've had many systems over the years. The ones I could listen to for hours were ones with the bass and treble complementing and giving impact to a revealing and detailed midrange.

[Rob]

Room acoustics are also very important.
Even without music.
If you’re living room is full of people, and the acoustics is not good, that can also fatigue.
And the volume is imported to.