WCU #43: The Panerai Problem

Panerai is a brand seemingly in decline. Since their period of serious popularity in the early-2000s, this Italian brand has suffered an ever-dwindling public reception. In today's episode of WATCH CHRONICLER UNSCRIPTED, I would like to take a look at where Panerai seems to be going wrong and why there remains hope for the brand's future.

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Music:

[ulifluhme]

Love Panerai, especially the classic ones. I don't care what people think of what watch I wear (clue: no one cares what watch you wear). I like the big size. Now that it is no longer mainstream taste, even better. There are enough like me to keep Panerai going.

[hugohernandez]

I think Panerai is doing just fine. I just got my first Panerai, and I am absolutely in love with it. I have watches from Rolex and Omega in my collection. The Panerai is so different from everything else...that is exactly what I was looking for. Something different, but with history and prestige. Panerai checked all the boxes.

[marcellostraps]

Panerai watches are not designed for pedestrian watch consumers who eagerly seek watches that will be recognized and praised by the other lemmings. Panerai are specifically and unapologetically designed for people who like large watches with a simple military look. The average Joe who likes Submariners and Speedmasters was never the target audience for these watches. The watch snob who commits acts of financial self flagellation and economic sado-masochism to purchase an AP or Patek at double the retail price in order to prove membership among the Instagram watch collecting alpha group is not now, and was never the target demographic for Panerai. So it is therefor with a sense of irony that these very same 'watch critics' and 'influencers' must pick up a Panerai and exclaim its too big for my tiny wrist. It is outdated. It is simple, it is not my style!" But nobody ever said the watch or the brand was catering to these people. You can have your 15cm wrist, your Submariner with water damage that you've convinced yourself is valuable "patina", drive your Prius or Tesla, drink your fair trade espresso and wear your cashmere turtlenecks and slate grey $100 nato straps. Just realize that not everyone is like you. Some people are larger, have larger wrists, like larger things, different designs, differnet brands and do not feel compelled by the herd mentality to follow mainstream watch trends.

[connieandstewart]

Love Panerai and my heart hasn’t changed since I first hear about them in my teenage years 15+ years ago.

My first time piece comes in next week (47mm pam423) and I’m so excited since the dial is similar to the PAM90 or PAM321 that I desired back then.

I don’t think the brand can really “lose” it’s way nor does it really need to reinvent itself. There is an appeal to the watch and you either get it or you don’t. This is the same for every other company.

I think one attitude that paneristi community can change is the idea of what a Panerai watch “should” be. That elitist mentality within the community deters new buyers from buying the brand because they says things along the lines of how a Panerai should only be something like the “fiddy” Pam 127... let people enjoy what they enjoy and let sales happen.

[KarbisSarafyan]

Attached to its appearance? You can say the same for a Rolex. A Rolex looks like every other watch.

[Beck-Stein]

Problems with Panerai:
1. They dont stop fakes. In fact, quality of fakes equal to Panerai as parts are interchangeable.
2. All models look the same. Try something different like a normal round case. Or expand out to dress watches perhaps. Anything.
3. Cheapening of entry level watches with snapback cases. Poor water resistance for a DIVE watch.
4. Too many limited editions. Maybe more than omega. Lol.
5. Panerai Due.
6. Panerai’s official IG posting fake panerai watches. Lol.
7. Continuously increasing prices like they are Rolex. Look at the entry price. Crazy for what you get.
8. You cant knock them for their large size. Thats what they are known for and essential in their identity.
9. Did i mention fakes?!?

[sandite]

I'm very new to watch collecting, but as soon as I discovered Panerai, they took all of my attention. They stand completely out from the crowd and their vintage, utilitarian style is exactly what makes them so cool. YouTubers can knock them all day if they want, but they've carved out an unbreakable niche that won't be going away.

And I can totally get why they would make more affordable, completely stripped down watches. Because alot of people love the brand, but will never be able to justify a $10, 000+ WRISTWATCH.

[jeremyrice]

Many, if not most, watch nerds fear change. Hence, Rolex which is the mega popular. They sell the past. Not for me.
What I don’t get is Rolex rolls out grandpa’s watches to great acclaim while Panerai does the same (with watches that aren’t as ancient) and yet Panerai is vilified?

[MischatenHoope]

Yes, we know that Panerais are not for the Frappucino drinking instagram crowd. They are watches with a clear heritage and they are instantly recognizable. They are well-engineered and reliable and, true to their heritage, big on purpose - asking for a small Panerai is like asking for a slow Porsche. Whether the brand is in decline may be up for discussion but prices for used Panerais are climbing nicely. This watch is a statement; if it's too big for tiny wrists, get something else that is approved by the Starbucks crowd.

[scottd]

Panerai on the downfall? Stallone's Luminor just sold for $244, 000 at auction. Panerai isn't going anywhere soon. Luna Rossa is representing Panerai in the America's cup races as well ! They are fantastic watches (like you say). They wear fantastically well, even in the big sizes.

[matthewdavis]

Watch sizes have continued to contract right along with Panerai's growth. Coincidence?

[jameshoward]

Panerai's decline is such a shame. There's a fundamental mis-appreciation of the brand that they've bought on themselves. Shame on Richemont. People see war, Stalone, The Rock, big watches and noughties excess. Not very millennial. They don't see Italian flair, exploration, beautiful, classic design, unique styling cues and perfect proportion. They don't see some great movements and brilliant lume! Time to pivot, Panerai. But, take hope: if you can convince people Tudor is cool, anything is possible!

The brand produces some beautiful designs that actually could be very successful with younger buyers (and the brand's future) - classic, minimal styling that plays well today. But, for the mass market, the watches are too big (by all means keep the classic 47s in the range though). Off-putting to new (younger) buyers. Simple. Panerai's uniqueness is their design language, not their size. If they put out some relevantly sized pieces (sub 42mm), but keep the finish and waterproofing, I think they could sell well. But not the shonky, overpriced Dues. Abject toot. Put out some sub 36mm women's models in brilliant colours, but keep them waterproof. A strong, stylish, elegant woman's sport watch? Zero competition. Ditch the gimicky releases: crappy carbon, ceramic and brittle Ti powder. Reduce the range. Reduce the prices! They are way overpriced.

I don't think the war history is too problematic per se (many German and Swiss brands share this issue after all), but Panerai should certainly shut up about their part in it - it's hardly glorious! Mind you, IWC seem to get away with a Nazi war plane on the back of their Mark Xviii. Utterly bizarre. 

But, I think they can recover. They just need to get some savvy people in. But one thing the Swiss watch industry struggles with is 'cool'.

[smiffter]

You have hit the nail on the head for me, I love Panerai and was after the base model, I did not want an automatic movement or date complication or alligator leather strap, i just wanted a bare bones Panerai and as they say "Less is more" 😉

[TrendyStone]

I visited a big watch store in Mexico City recently (Polanco) and they had every brand under one roof. There were no Patek's in the display case. There were zero Rolex watches in the display case. It looked pathetic. They only have three Tudor models in their display case (really, they can't even keep Tudor in stock?), But every other brand (Omega, Panerai, Cartier, etc.) had a great selection. I've tired of the Rolex nonsense. I'll keep my GMT Batman but I'll never buy another Rolex. Anyway...I got the chance to look and feel the new Panerai models and they seem great. I'm a long time owner (~12 years) of a PAM 111 and wear it all the time) and their new models looks fantastic. I see them regularly on business trips, especially on planes. I don't think they've lost their way.

UPDATE 7/10/22 I just bought the PAM 1288 called: Submersible QuarantaQuattro eSteel Grigio Roccia and it's fantastic. Beautiful watch and nice addition to my collection. Mine is the grey gradient version. If I had more money I'd buy the green and blue dial versionsl also. There's a 44mm white dial submersible that I'm in love with also.

[VP]

Panerai can't be objectively reviewed. Lot of topic on it we could agree to disagree, but bottom line I don't know any other brand that create such a passionable loyal community, not driven on current hypes re-sale, make a profit or I care what you think. Pure passion on both watch community sides, either you genuinely hate it or love it. That's something. Even bad or good, no one ever stopped talking about them.

It's a watch that is intended for use & abuse, not ment to sit in safe waiting for add value. And that is true value of Panerai.

Problem is, Rolex, PP, AP audience criticism is addressed to why this brand isn't something that he isn't. Putting aside fact that there is enough big community of people that are perfecty fine with 300m WR watch driven by reliable and simple to maintain movement, tool watch with unique and recognizable style, that do what is ment to do.

Aside Panerai most replicated watch on this planet is Rolex, by Chinese or Taiwan Replicas or other brands that want to make recognizable associations with Sub or Daytona to push sales with cheaper alternatives for those that can't afford Rolex... and no one seams to have problem with that.

But in case with Panerai... seams like almost decade everyone tries to drop value with that same fact. What... can't stand popularity?

As over the decade Panerai owner, and Rolex owner and AP owner... all I can say I never cared what anyone think and never compared Panerai with any other brand. It's a world on its own.

[richardsmegma]

With a bit of vision & innovation, a mixture of old & new, Panerai will come back better than ever!

[tenmuter]

I love the design of Panerai watches. Their iconic sandwich dial is unmistakable and beautiful to my eyes. There's also nothing wrong with being a one hit wonder (I'm looking at you, AP Royal oak). To me, the problem of panerai is as you outlined in your very well spoken video: they are too big and too expensive. Even on the used market it is hard to find a panerai in decent condition for less than 5k USD. I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money for such an ostentatious product even just to try it then try to sell it. If I could rent a panerai, I would. But to spend 5K just to be laughed at for wearing such an oversized watch and then suffer through the headache of flipping it to a niche customer base is just not worth it to me

[TheMystro]

Panerai new proprietary materials like "Carbotech" are outstanding with their own in-house P9010 movement is a very unique and high end package. I personally own one (Pam 661) and the Carbotech is tougher and more scratch resistant than any metal or ceramic watch I have owned. Its in its own category of toughness with a movement to satisfy the highest movement snob. My P.9010 movement gets +1 second a day and has a 81 hour power reserve. The dual barrel mainspring of the P.9010 gives the movement a higher amplitude and is more accurate longer into its power reserve. As a comparison, It will embarrass the new Rolex "32 series" of movements that have very weak amplitude. (I own many as well). No other watch I own from Rolex, Omega, AP, etc.. can match these features.
I feel Panerai actually gives its customer more watch for their money providing you stay at their upper end of their watches. Panerai has always been the brand to drive some into a odd rage of hate. Panerai was never targeted to those out side the enthusiast owner so its probably a good thing the mass buyers play commodity trader with other brands like Rolex.

[CaptCanuck]

Panerai made a huge mistake by trying to move too quickly upmarket with corporate profits in mind more that cultivating its core customer base. As someone who had been involved in the community for 15 yrs, i witnessed a tipping point some years ago when many of the original and enthusiastic Panerai fans started to feel alienated, unappreciated and betrayed by the brand that they helped popularize. As you mentioned in the video, it was the core base models that popularized the brand in the first place. Largely abandoning that focus was a deeply stupid and self destructive decision by a greedy and soulless corporate cretin.

[TrendyStone]

I've had a Pam 111 for ~12 years and still LOVE it. Along with my Rolex Batman it gets more wrist time than any other watch, There's just something....cool...about it. And now I'm looking at the new 44mm submersible releases. Very excited to get one.