Latency - Facts, Fiction and Perception

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[LeonTodd]

Not sure which I pronounce worse - beta, mesa or latency.


Also, thanks to the Fossil for his input at 2:26.

[GianlucaScarano]

Really good video as usual! The problem become real when you play through any modeler (2/5 ms of latency), using a wireless system (8/10 ms of latency), maybe you pass through your band's digital mixer (8/10 ms of latency) and maybe you play on stage 3 meters away from your speaker (10 ms of latency)...you can easily reach 28/35 ms of latency. Same thing if you play your modeler trough an audio interface and you run multiple plugins each one adding his own latency... The problem is not the latency of one single element in the chain but usually the sum of all of them.

[PlagueScytheStudios]

Those who claim they can hear 2ms of latency must see everyone's lips talking out of sync with their voice - we talk to each other at a lot further away than a couple feet. That would definitely explain the people who want to talk in your face from six inches away...

[chrisact]

Another issue with latency is phase. If you are processing things in parallel and one path has more latency than the other, they two signals won't mix together in phase exactly. So you can end up with comb filtering in the mix.

[Funtw]

Hi Leon,

I will never be able to perceive latency around 1 to 15ms as well. However, I sometimes experienced following scenario.

Let’s say we’re playing with the latency just below the ‘threshold’, saying 15ms, with an fx plugin on DAW, for 2 hours. Then after the 2 hours let’s say we’re starting playing with 2ms of latency with AxeFx.

At this point where I switched to AxeFx, I often felt like I’m connected more closely to the sound than when I played with 15ms latency. I would say it feels something similar like removing sandbags hung on my hand. 

My conclusion is, these tiny latencies are not really perceivable at a moment but it might have been affecting us ever so slightly and gradually in a long time frame. Probably I’m wrong. And I admit I’m still struggling about this topic. 

Also personally I’ve been wishing someone could make a video about this topic and so glad that you’re the hero speaking out!

Thank you always for making quality contents!

[larsmars]

speed of sound is 343m/s, so 15ms would be +-5.1meters or +-16.73 feet for the imperial system

[ericajohnson]

you can't hear latency, but you can definitely feel it. You can adjust to it, but the immediacy is lost.

[jeremyhorst]

Steve Vai Literally just claimed in a NAMM video that he can hear/feel one millisecond of latency ;)

[bhlguitar]

It's only when playing slide or fretless that latency becomes an issue for me. It really highlights how much micro-correction you do, to stay in tune. When you hit a note, then there's the time it takes to hear it, you adjust that tiny fraction, then have to 'wait' to hear it again, so to speak. It rather compounds the effects of latency, possibly 2-3 times the actual amount present in the system. I struggled with it in the early days of DI recording (not that long ago, lol), but it's been a while since I did any recording.

[Johnsormani]

Even in a tube amp there is some latency. Every capacitor in the signal chain is a time delay in the amp. The best demonstration of latency in a tube amp is the shimmer effect when you set the treble and bass knob of a fender bassman at 50%. This is caused by the large capacitor in the bass control

[hoosierdaddy]

I just heard Steve Vai talk about this. He said for him, he didn't like Latency, which no one does.. He's using these Cynergy preamps, etc..
Great info. Data matters..

[MesaGuitarGuy]

Steve Vai was there to sell his Synergy module.

[elruso]

One amp modeler or one H9 are not going to give you headaches with latency. But when you have 4 digital fx, an amp modeler, everything is going trough a digital mixer and you have in ears.... you will feel it. Cheers Leon!

[SlinkyT]

Great vid dude! The trial part where you decreased the delay by 10ms each time was very cool. I was looking down taking a bite when you came in with the gruff voice by the speaker and cracked up as soon as I looked up. Just recently traded my tube head and 4x12 for an Axe iii and FC-12. Has been fitting my apartment lifestyle a bit more and I've been playing\writing more. Gonna be digging through your channel and the manual to get better at it but it's already pretty much the best recorded tone I've ever gotten. Cheers bro and next time you're in NYC the beer is on me. ;)

[WarDimensionOfficial]

I never actually tried to measure the latency of my setup... I just noticed that it's there... But out of curiosity, I did it, apparently it's around 80 ms... Damn... That's a lot...

[tusharjamwal]

I play almost exclusively through plugins with 3 kinds of main tones; aciustic kind of etheral tones with big reverb, solo lead tones and chuggy rhythm tones similar to what Andy James has on his music. My experience there is that about 30-35ms latency starts to become obvious to me. But, I have no problems playing the cleans and leads even with that latency, I don't feel uncomfortable or anything. However, I cannot play rhythm parts when I am able to notice the latency so it has to be below 25ms and even then if I am double tracking it with one channel already recorded then I cannot get a good take on the second one easily. So I have a preset in Reaper for tracking with latency setup under 10ms and I never have problem tracking at that latency, if it sounds off at that point, it's coz I fucked up my part not because of latency.

[KevinHeiderich]

I don't care too much about latency if it's low. For example, I don't use the direct monitoring feature of my interface. Instead I route the signal through my DAW and monitor it from there, which adds some latency. It's easier to set levels there, that's the reason for it.
BUT, what's really weird for me is playing through real speakers instead of headphones. I always play through headphones, like really always, but whenever I play through speakers I can feel something being slightly off. And I think it's because of the latency produced by the sound traveling from the speakers to my ear. I'm not saying I can notice a latency of under 20ms but I can feel a difference between headphones and real speakers, timing-feeling-wise.

[BigMikeGuitar]

That’s a good argument for if you’re using a pedal chain – go analog; and if you’re using a modeling unit – use one of them that does everything you need it too, and if necessary, only supplement it with analog pedals.

[elymental]

Spot on man, at last someone who gets it Latency is a bane in a DAW

[Phantom_Communique]

Love this, thank you for talking about it man! It drives me nuts when people talk about latency in digital systems as if it doesn’t also occur in the case of a fully analog one coming through a speaker.