Beowulf: The J.R.R. Tolkien Translation Book Review & Reaction | With Guest Philip Chase

Mike is joined by Philip to talk the legendary tale of Beowulf and the 1926 translation by J.R.R. Tolkien.

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Mike K.
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#MikesBookReviews #Beowulf #Tolkien

[PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for inviting me for this chat, Mike! Discussing this major inspiration for so much fantasy with you was a pleasure and an honor. Plus, it’s always fantastic to have a chance to talk with you, my friend.

[theoa]

It's 6am, I'm barely awake, and that intro got me thinking I had a stroke 😵‍💫

[libraryofaviking]

I have been so excited to watch this! Loved the intro 👏

[mikouf]

The intro brings back memories! In high school (late 1980s) my high school teacher played a portion of an audio recording of Beowulf read in Old English. It's been that long since I read the poem. Mike's decision to read it and his announcement of this video inspired me to reread it. I chose the Heaney translation, but when I have some space in my TBR, I'd like to read a couple of other translations, including Tolkien's.

[avi]

I have been waiting for this talk for so long and finally its here. And what a great conversation and education. Thank you so much for the great content

[Altruismisreal]

Wow, that went really quickly. Excellent conversation!

[Johanna_reads]

Thank you both for this wonderful discussion! I love Beowulf, and this story seems so special to our genre, especially as it was special to Tolkien! Fascinating how Beowulf's machismo gets him killed and how that adds layers to this lament regarding bravery, desire for fame, and futility. Mike, it sounds like you would enjoy a history of rock class!

[MacScarfield]

A truly epic chat!

As for Dragonslaying, there are even older stories: The Greeks had Heracles and the Hydra, Zeus and Typhoon, Apollo and Python. The Indians had Indra and Vitra, the Hittites had Tarhunt and Illuyanka, the Vikings had Thor and Jormundgandr/The Midgard Serpent, and in the Bible Yahweh defeats Leviathan. This example, as well as the Germanic Seigfried/Norse Sigurd, is often tied to the PIE (Proto Indo-European) migration of people, language and religion/ideas from the Steppes north of the Black Sea (what is now modern day Ukraine and Southwestern Russia), across most of Europe and Western Asia, aided by the taming of the horse and battle chariots.

This recurring theme has been named “Chaoskampf”/The Struggle of order vs Chaos: The Dragon (just as the Jotuns, Giants, and Grendel) represents chaos, while the Sky/Storm God represents order/Civilization.

There is a theory tying Grendel to Ingeld, the enemy of the Scylding Kings Hrothgar and Hrolf

In Beowulf, Ingeld is the son of King Froda of the Heaðobard tribe warring with the Danes rule by the Scyling Dynasty. He becomes the Son in Law of King Hrothgar/Hroar, but the poet tells us (spoilers! 😆 I jest, just some dramatic irony from the poet) that this will not stop him from burning down Hrothgar’s Hall Heorot sometime in the future (In the Commentary, Tolkien compares the Doom of Heorot, with the Doom of Camelot in Arthurian Myth and mentions a theory that the origin of the conflict between the Heathobards and the Scyldings, was the control/royal legitimacy tied to a Temple dedicated to the Vanir Fertility Gods of the Norse: Njord and his children Frey and Freya).

In Hrolf Kraki’s Saga, Froda is the son of Ingjald (reversed in the Skjoldung Saga and the Bjarkarimur), slays his brother Halfdan/Healfdene, but is in return killed by Halfdan’s sons Hroar and Helge/Helgi. Hroar (Here the King of Northumbria) is killed by his nephew Hroki (the son of Hroar and Helge’s sister) when he refused to give Hroki a ring that was Hroar’s part of the inheritance of Halfdan. Hroki is then in turn killed by Hroar’s son Agnar.
Later the Berserker Bodvar Bjarki defeats a monster haunting Hrolf Kraki’s Hall at Yule Times, and slays a boar-shaped troll sent by King Adhils of the Swedes.

In Gesto Danorum, there are multiple mentions of Ingjald/Ingild
1. Father of Agnar, who is engaged to Hrolfs sister, but gets cut in half by the Berserker Bodvar Bjarki
2. Son of Frode/Frodi, lives the life of wastrel, angering the old warrior Starkad when he marry the daughter of Swerting (king of the Saxons, who killed Frodi). Starkad leaves to serve the King of the Swedes, but return, and convinces Ingjald to kill the sons of Swerting and divorce his wife.
3. A family feud as Hrolf Kraki’s Saga, here Ingjald is father of Frodi and Halfdan.

Sonya R. Jensen identifies Grendel with Agnar, son of Ingeld in Gesta Danorum, and suggests that the tale of the first two monsters is actually the tale of Ingeld, that the Scholar Alcuin of York mentions in the 790s (“the most learned man in the world” and according to Einhard, the biographer of Charlemagne, whose court Alcuin joined to spearhead the Carolingian Renaissance, from which we among other things have the origin of lower case letters). Agnar gets cut in half by Bodvar Bjarki (“the warlike bear”) and died a "with his lips separated into a smile"; Meanwhile Grendel "died laughing", and was gren-dael[ed] or "grin-divid[ed]", when his arm gets torn off by Beowulf (bee-wolf or bear). Possibly the reason for burning down Heorot/a Parent seeking revenge for their son?

Using different stories, I have been so bold as to try to imagine the outlines the lost tale of Ingeld/Ingjald that Alcuin mentions, as a quasi-Wagnerian Opera/Shakespearean Tragedy:
“The Heathbards”/ “The Ingildiad”

Part 1: Ingjald the Elder, king of the Heathbards and protector of a Temple of Njord, Frey & Freya, witness his father slayed by the Saxon King Swerting. As a youth he is wastrel that gets called to action by his father’s old champion Starkad: Slaying his brothers in law and divorcing Swerting’s Daughter. He fathers Frodi and foster Halfdan (later Danish king). After his father’s death, Frodi (son of Ingjald and the Saxon Princess), kills his foster brother Halfdan (the favorite of his father, inheriting the Temple and the Ring symbolizing sovereignty) and takes his kingdom, his wife, the temple and the ring, but gets killed by Hroar and Helge, the sons of Halfdan.

Part 2: Ingjald the Younger, son of Frodi, son in law of Hroar, slays Hroar & burns Heorot, but gets killed by Hrolf, son of Helge.

Agnar, son of Ingjald the Younger (grandson of Hroar?): Is gonna marry Hrolf’s sister Rute/Skuld, but gets killed by Bodvar Bjarki after harrassing the youth Hott, the future hero and companion of Bodvar, Hjalti. (This scene can both be before or after Ingjald the Younger burns down Heorot and dying)

Similar to the Norse Norns/Witches in Macbeth, the play ends with Ursa/Yrse (mother of Hrolf) marring King Athils of Sweden and Rute/Skuld (sister of Hrolf) marring Heoroweard/Hjorvard, (Petty King of Oland and Scania/Jarl of Sweden for Hrolf), and retell how now the stage is set for the events of the Saga of Hrolf Kraki.

[wacoglee]

This was just great! Thank you both. I know I will be watching this again when I reread Beowulf. What a wonderful gift

[Verlopil]

I'm late to this video, but I just wanted to comment on how much I enjoyed it. I came to Beowulf late after watching the 13th Warrior and reading Eaters of the Dead. I fell in love with the musicality of the language, that driving rhythm and alliteration that was hypnotizing. (I feel like Robert E Howard must have been a fan of Beowulf because some of his prose descriptions fall into a similar rhythm.) I haven't read the Tolkien essay or his translation, but now I'm going to pick them up. I'm also subscribing to Mr. Chase's channel. Thanks for the video!

[grvhppr]

Thank you so much for putting this out. I’ll be putting Tolkien’s Beowulf on my list. The talk of influences at the end really hit home and has inspired me to do the same with some of my favorite authors.

[BaldBookTuber]

Awesome discussion, and obviously I’m happy any time a new potential Crichton fan is created.

[shawnturpin]

I think I might owe Philip for tuition after watching this.

[currangill]

I love these discussions. I love any interview with Phillip Chase!

[dannysandoval]

3 min and 15 seconds in and I’m already learning stuff and am intrigued.. hahah, awesome job guys! Looking forward to the rest

[AdamThayer]

Dammit Mike and Philip... 28 minutes into a discussion on a book I had no interest in reading, and I find myself hunting down a translation to add to my TBR. Great discussion gents!

[robertfrank]

This is great...I am just finishing reading this for my book club tomorrow night. Thank you!

[curtjarrell]

Thanks Mike and Dr. Chase for this chat about Beowulf. The old English sounds a bit like Klingon to me. lol

[inanimatecarbongod]

Oh, this was better than I thought it would be. I now need to reread Beowulf and then rewatch this. I would very much like to take Philip's course now too. And then read all the Norse stuff too. And the Tain Bo Cuailgne. And the Nibelungenlied. Goddamn I have some work ahead of me...

[ravenbellebooks]

This is what I needed in high school. Thank y'all so much!