What did God actually say to Cain?

In this excerpt from our discussion of the theology of Genesis, Caleb Lewis, host of the Bible in Context podcast, joins JM to talk about a VERY different way Genesis 4:7 can be translated…

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[shredHim]

This supports a theory that I have been thinking about for Cain and Abel. To approach God in sacred space required ritual purification through blood sacrifice. What if Abel’s blood sacrifice allowed him direct fellowship with God while Abel refused to do what God required and did what he wanted, thus leading to God rejecting the offering/sacrifice. God tells him that he needs to do the correct thing and in his anger kills Abel as a mockery of the blood sacrifice. To me, it makes sense in context of the rejection and God’s warning and instruction.

[DaniqueBrew]

This interpretation makes sense if read with Genesis 8:20-21: Noah, immediately after stepping out of the door of the ark, builds an altar and makes the sacrifices (provided by God through His earlier instructions) that pleased God. Then in Genesis 9:1 Noah received God's blessing.

[todd]

Perhaps the traditional translation has more to do with our human tendency to want to conquer and subdue. We like to feel like “we” are in control. Whereas the translation offered here would appear to lean toward any victory we may have it is only through our submission to God first. Just a thought

[Hambone]

Hmm... i don't find it overwhelmingly convincing.

[genconex]

This version doesn't seem to indicate why Cain would murder his brother Abel.

The traditional rendering provides a warning from God to Cain to think twice before he committed the murder of his brother.

As we know, Cain did not heed God's advice and acted out in sin.

[paullavoie]

Maybe it's both. Maybe God is using both ways to get a message across to us. Sin is waiting on the outside and it's desire is for you. And there's purification waiting for you also if you do sin. Then later we get Cain's repentance and God marking his head making him his own so no one would hurt him.

[vespasw]

I think the “and you will rule over him” might be that Cain would rule over Abel if he sought purification. It was a possible future, but Cain took it into his own hands.

[Hambone]

I would like to see how this passage correlates with other near eastern literature because so much of Genesis contrasts with Sumerian theology.

[SDscrch]

how does the septuagint treat this passage?

[mikeschaller]

Interesting but hard to follow. If it is not Sin that we must rule over, and cannot as shown later in Genesis and throughout history, then why does the church teach that Christ has defeated Sin? Why does it teach that we are in bondage/slavery to Sin? In light of Christ, the traditional translation makes more sense.

I’ve see the story of Cain and able in multiple ways, having layers of meaning and symbolism. It shows the condition of man, inheriting the knowledge that Adam took, it shows our adversary, Sin, it shows our weakness and that something is wrong with our hearts, which we later learn is bent towards evil, and most importantly it shows our status with God, both at birth, and once Sin has ruled us. We are born outside the garden, perfect communion with God, but not completely separated from God. When we Sun, we can no longer be in Gods presence and we are driven away. Speaks well to the Orthodox teaching of Original Sin, but in defiance to the Catholic and Reformed teaching on the matter.

[ronjones]

Its interesting, but I don't see any significant difference as it impacts scripture. God told Cain he could do good or bad, and Cain chose bad.

At first blush, I'd argue that God did not give Cain the opportunity to provide a sin offering after he killed his brother, which I would think supports the traditional narrative.

At the end of the day, the point of the story is that jealousy of another's honest effort proving successful compared to your half hearted efforts leads to you doing horrible things. Do your best and don't worry about others.

[baremetalmafia]

Isn’t this just stating that Christ will come and be the blood offering? I mean it seams pretty obvious to me when I hear this interpretation that it is God proclaiming the coming of The Lamb. In Genesis of all places.

[spacemanspiff]

What do the Talmud and rabbinical writings say? Did the Jews in antiquity understand this passage in the same way?